wcblack34 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 55 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Yes. That is the issue. And while we all know that it happens. Turning the rule into a farce should be met with penalty. The Rooney Rule really hasn't worked. And it's a really easy defense for the Giants to make: "It is true that we thought Brian Dabol would likely be our new head coach. He blew us away in interviews and we think he'd be great for our young franchise quarterback. However, we didn't want to leave any stone unturned, and we wanted to interview Coach Flores because we are impressed with his credentials and how he turned around the Dolphins this year. At the end of the day, we just didn't feel that he was the right fit moving forward. We have a significant interest in seeing Daniel Jones succeed, and we believed that Brian Dabol will be best suited to creating that success." It's going to be difficult for the league to punish the Giants. Especially with the litigation pending, because that could very well be seen as an admission of wrongdoing. The NFL isn't going to be interested in giving them that cannon fodder. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 12 minutes ago, wcblack34 said: The Rooney Rule really hasn't worked. And it's a really easy defense for the Giants to make: "It is true that we thought Brian Dabol would likely be our new head coach. He blew us away in interviews and we think he'd be great for our young franchise quarterback. However, we didn't want to leave any stone unturned, and we wanted to interview Coach Flores because we are impressed with his credentials and how he turned around the Dolphins this year. At the end of the day, we just didn't feel that he was the right fit moving forward. We have a significant interest in seeing Daniel Jones succeed, and we believed that Brian Dabol will be best suited to creating that success." It's going to be difficult for the league to punish the Giants. Especially with the litigation pending, because that could very well be seen as an admission of wrongdoing. The NFL isn't going to be interested in giving them that cannon fodder. A rule like the Rooney Rule really can’t work, and it invites “sham” interviews. But the idea that the Giants had already given Daboll the job, and that people outside of the Giants organization knew about it, which is what Belichick’s text message would indicate, means that the Giants were acting in bad faith. Thats where the punishment should stem from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: A rule like the Rooney Rule really can’t work, and it invites “sham” interviews. But the idea that the Giants had already given Daboll the job, and that people outside of the Giants organization knew about it, which is what Belichick’s text message would indicate, means that the Giants were acting in bad faith. Thats where the punishment should stem from. That's very easy to spin away unless BB has texts that say "WE ARE HIRING DABOL." We don't even know who he got the information from. It might not have even come from a decision maker. Regardless, unless there's a written comunique that says "WE ARE HIRING DABOL," that person can say "oh no, I did say that we were leaning towards Dabol from the candidates we had interviewed" or "I did say that Dabol was the hire if Flores doesn't blow us away." The thing you need to know about Plaintiff's Complaints is this: they are drafted in the light most favorable to the Plaintiff's position. They often omit facts that are harmful to the Plaintiff's case, and they tend to make allegations that the Plaintiff "believes" will be uncovered in the discovery phase of the litigation (which doesn't begin in earnest until after the Defendant Answers the Complaint). We haven't even seen the NFL's Answer yet. Discovery hasn't begun. While I agree that the Rooney Rule has always invited sham interviews, this case isn't going anywhere against the Giants unless there is a smoking gun email/text/recording. That may exist. The Belichick text isn't it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 15 minutes ago, wcblack34 said: this case isn't going anywhere against the Giants unless there is a smoking gun email/text/recording. That may exist. The Belichick text isn't it. surely we could seize the voting machines or something. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 43 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: A rule like the Rooney Rule really can’t work, and it invites “sham” interviews. But the idea that the Giants had already given Daboll the job, and that people outside of the Giants organization knew about it, which is what Belichick’s text message would indicate, means that the Giants were acting in bad faith. Thats where the punishment should stem from. The Giants should face consequences if they can prove that they might the hire before fulfilling the Rooney rule but I don't see how they'll be able to prove that it was racially motivated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Would the Giants have had to interview 2 minority coaches in addition to Graham even if they wanted to hire him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 minute ago, vikesfan89 said: The Giants should face consequences if they can prove that they might the hire before fulfilling the Rooney rule but I don't see how they'll be able to prove that it was racially motivated That's the other thing. It's one thing to do a sham interview. It's an entirely different leap to "they only hired him because of his skin color." There's no doubt there was pretty significant interest in Dabol around the league. To say that Dabol was less qualified than Flores but got extra consideration becaue of his race is something that Flores will not be able to prove by a preponderance of the evidenct (50.1 to 49.9), unless there are written statements or recordings that state that. Even if there are messages and recordings denegrating Flores because of his race, that still does not make a good enough case to say that Dabol was hired because of his race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikesfan89 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, wcblack34 said: That's the other thing. It's one thing to do a sham interview. It's an entirely different leap to "they only hired him because of his skin color." There's no doubt there was pretty significant interest in Dabol around the league. To say that Dabol was less qualified than Flores but got extra consideration becaue of his race is something that Flores will not be able to prove by a preponderance of the evidenct (50.1 to 49.9), unless there are written statements or recordings that state that. Even if there are messages and recordings denegrating Flores because of his race, that still does not make a good enough case to say that Dabol was hired because of his race. I'm sure they didn't want Daboll to take any other interviews but I wonder went the Flores interview was scheduled so much later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 Surprised it took this long for the Rooney Rule to get tied up in a lawsuit. The rule needs to be done away with already and clearly does not promote diverse hiring practices, seems its more of a “check the box” task at this point. Look I’m all for diverse hiring, but you can’t force teams to do it through rules and regulations. That’s a culture thing that has to change in the NFL, and again it won’t change via rules and lawsuits. Should add that so many black candidates are defensive coaches. Aren’t we moving towards offensive hires. Why aren’t there more black Offensive coordinators. I know Bieniemy is one but he’s never going to get a HC gig with some of his issues, and then there’s Jim Caldwell, I think the ship has sailed on him as a HC due to age. Pep Hamilton? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcblack34 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 55 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Surprised it took this long for the Rooney Rule to get tied up in a lawsuit. The rule needs to be done away with already and clearly does not promote diverse hiring practices, seems its more of a “check the box” task at this point. Look I’m all for diverse hiring, but you can’t force teams to do it through rules and regulations. That’s a culture thing that has to change in the NFL, and again it won’t change via rules and lawsuits. I think that the Rooney Rule was good in the sense of "the first step is admitting that you have a problem." I think it did get some minority coaches in front of teams so they could at least be on the radar. However, in practice, you are correct. It is a check the box exercise. So much so, that I'm surprised teams haven't made a practice of interviewing the minority candidates first. The rule doesn't have any teeth, and it has no legal significance. As to your point about why there aren't more minority offensive candidates, we are really not that far removed from an era where coaches and scouts believed that black QBs weren't smart enough to play QB, so many of them switched positions. Particularly to defense. That certainly put many behind the curve. If you look at the most common path to OC, it's as a QB coach, and a great many of those coaches played the position at some level. Black QBs weren't really afforded that opportunity on a regular basis prior to 2010. I think time will change that. Anyway, that's just my theory. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 12 hours ago, SemperFeist said: Yes. That is the issue. And while we all know that it happens. Turning the rule into a farce should be met with penalty. I get that, and I agree they should get penalized if Flores can prove his case, I just don't think it'll be significant. The Giants have a policy set forth by the NFL that they must follow, and they did interview him. I don't think it is right to use him as a "sham interview" according to Flores, but end of the day, since they completed the minimum criteria for the hiring process, I don't think they can be significantly penalized. Quote found here: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/brian-flores-says-giants-interview-was-show-satisfy-rooney-rule-rcna14529 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 The problem isn't the rule, it's the execution. If the owners would comply in good faith, there wouldn't be an issue. Those who operate in bad faith should be held accountable. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 13 minutes ago, swede700 said: The problem isn't the rule, it's the execution. If the owners would comply in good faith, there wouldn't be an issue. Those who operate in bad faith should be held accountable. A culture change is much needed in the NFL. Is it possible that the Rooney Rule ended up having the opposite effect of what it was supposed to achieve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpMc Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpMc Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Rick gets fired, and is now ABOVE GM level. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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