Broncos T Ja'Wuan James tears Achilles; Out for season

[thebestever6]

12 hours ago, paul-mac said:

To add insult to injury we don’t really have a good blocking tight end to help with. Fant and Albert O are both big WRs. I guess we can use Anderson in jumbo sets. 

Maybe that's why they signed that fullback

[thebestever6]

19 hours ago, AKRNA said:

I really thought when they drafted him they saw him as an OG, probably LG. He's just really challenged laterally. Anyway, I'm hoping for the best from him but I think Meinerz will give him a real challenge.

I'd take him at guard still would be a great pick if he pans out glassgow has glass in his name for a reason another Elway Mr.glass fa lineman spectacular.

[BroncoBruin]

20 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Played 7 games, injured week 8, played versus the following teams:  Lions, Giants, Panthers, Falcons, Tampa, Rams .  Huge reason why Bears started 5-1, but was rightfully seen as a mirage (then lost vs. LAR week 7).   2 very good DL's, 4 very suspect ones & 1 mediocre one (Colts DL and lack of pass rush are why they went Rd1-2 there, even though they probably needed LT more).    Context always matters over simply citing PFF stats - and playing half a season, and the competition, changes the lens completely. 

When you compare that vs. Dennis Kelly, the comparison isn't really that close...at all.   Hope it's not just a case of familiarity/loyalty given he's a former Bear.   Money shouldn't be the factor at those prices.  

 

Kelly was asking for Eric Fisher money, so money was THE factor here. 

[Broncofan]

9 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Kelly was asking for Eric Fisher money, so money was THE factor here. 

Man as much as I’ve bagged on Elway for overspending on meh stopgaps in years where we weren’t realistic contenders - not sure saving 4-5M was the call here.   The team is this close - if we get the QB.   This is literally the first year where a little extra coin at a key position might actually have an impact.  
 

Now if it’s multiple years I get why a team might say no.  If it’s just 1 - I’ve been down on the FO spending in past offseasons (cough MG3 cough) because it wasn’t going to impact the team’s fate that year.   Can’t say the same this year.  Guess we will see how penny wise that move was. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by Broncofan

[BroncoBruin]

43 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Man as much as I’ve bagged on Elway for overspending on meh stopgaps in years where we weren’t realistic contenders - not sure saving 4-5M was the call here.   The team is this close - if we get the QB.   This is literally the first year where a little extra coin at a key position might actually have an impact.  
 

Now if it’s multiple years I get why a team might say no.  If it’s just 1 - I’ve been down on the FO spending in past offseasons (cough MG3 cough) because it wasn’t going to impact the team’s fate that year.   Can’t say the same this year.  Guess we will see how penny wise that move was. 

If you’re in play for Rodgers, saving 4-5 million was absolutely the call here. That aside, Massie is not nearly as bad as you think and Kelly isn’t likely to replicate the success he had in 2020.

You have to consider how tackle-friendly the Titans situation is, playing in an offense built around the run game and play action with a decent amount of max protection. So the current perception of Kelly as a pass protector is probably a little bit inflated relative to what it would look like in most offenses built around the passing game. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by BroncoBruin

[BroncoBruin]

I actually think Massie is a good litmus test of how we as fans struggle with relative value and it's particularly noticeable with mediocre corners and mediocre offensive tackles. And it makes sense, because they're reactive positions where your opposition has a physical advantage and you're going to get exposed enough times that perception can get pretty out of whack. But the difference between those guys and actively terrible corners or tackles is still pretty significant. 

That isn't to say he was the best choice, but guys like Massie stick around as starters for a long time for a reason - the alternatives can be so much worse. But I'm sure if you ask Bears fans about Massie or Leno, they're the worst tackles ever, just horrible players. Realistically, Massie is probably up there with Veldheer as the best right tackle we've had during this awful carousel at the position considering James played a game worth of snaps. And yeah, it's not saying much when you look at the other guys they've played, but that's really the point. The others since Franklin have actively tanked the offense for entire games with their play. Massie won't do that. 

Edited May 13, 2021 by BroncoBruin

[AKRNA]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

I actually think Massie is a good litmus test of how we as fans struggle with relative value and it's particularly noticeable with mediocre corners and mediocre offensive tackles. And it makes sense, because they're reactive positions where your opposition has a physical advantage and you're going to get exposed enough times that perception can get pretty out of whack. But the difference between those guys and actively terrible corners or tackles is still pretty significant. 

That isn't to say he was the best choice, but guys like Massie stick around as starters for a long time for a reason - the alternatives can be so much worse. But I'm sure if you ask Bears fans about Massie or Leno, they're the worst tackles ever, just horrible players. Realistically, Massie is probably up there with Veldheer as the best right tackle we've had during this awful carousel at the position considering James played a game worth of snaps. And yeah, it's not saying much when you look at the other guys they've played, but that's really the point. The others since Franklin have actively tanked the offense for entire games with their play. Massie won't do that. 

I hope everyone reads your last two posts.

[Broncofan]

2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

If you’re in play for Rodgers, saving 4-5 million was absolutely the call here. That aside, Massie is not nearly as bad as you think and Kelly isn’t likely to replicate the success he had in 2020.

You have to consider how tackle-friendly the Titans situation is, playing in an offense built around the run game and play action with a decent amount of max protection. So the current perception of Kelly as a pass protector is probably a little bit inflated relative to what it would look like in most offenses built around the passing game. 

That’s entirely fair re: scheme.   Having said that - Kelly doesn’t just have the play advantage with 2020 - he’s also been durable and dependable the last 2 years - 1 game missed total.   Massie has missed 6 & 8 games in that time span.    
 

In a vacuum I get Paton wanting to mine value.    And maybe with  Munchak’s prowess it won’t matter.   But we are talking a lot of projection with Massie playing up - and staying healthy at 31.   Generally that’s a pretty iffy combo.   Taking the guy who has played well and also shown he can stay on the field once you’re into third contracts usually wins out over projection / return to health signings.    
 

Now if Kelly wants multiple years - as I said before that’s completely understandable to pass.   If it’s just a 1-year signing it’s not a team killer either way but I’d put my eggs there.  Guess we’ll see this year how it works out.   In a perfect world Anderson makes it moot - but the likelihood we need our 3rd T to play meaningful snaps is almost a given in today’s NFL.  

Edited May 14, 2021 by Broncofan

[Broncofan]

Having said the above - I can get behind adding more depth positionally - Fleming plays all positions (but sadly for him he’s never found a starter level position).    I suspect it’s also about having 4 guys who can play T but also having IOL versatility with Fleming.  
 

 

Edited May 14, 2021 by Broncofan

[BroncoBruin]

Well, how about that. That makes the offensive line ten deep. Can’t remember a time where that was ever the case.

[BroncoBruin]

46 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Having said the above - I can get behind adding more depth positionally - Fleming plays all positions (but sadly for him he’s never found a starter level position).    I suspect it’s also about having 4 guys who can play T but also having IOL versatility with Fleming.  
 

 

That’s about 160 combined starts they’ve added into the OL room this week. No small thing. I thought Anderson looked comfortable on the left side, but not the right side so adding another tackle makes sense. 

 

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, Broncofan said:

That’s entirely fair re: scheme.   Having said that - Kelly doesn’t just have the play advantage with 2020 - he’s also been durable and dependable the last 2 years - 1 game missed total.   Massie has missed 6 & 8 games in that time span.    
 

In a vacuum I get Paton wanting to mine value.    And maybe with  Munchak’s prowess it won’t matter.   But we are talking a lot of projection with Massie playing up - and staying healthy at 31.   Generally that’s a pretty iffy combo.   Taking the guy who has played well and also shown he can stay on the field once you’re into third contracts usually wins out over projection / return to health signings.    
 

Now if Kelly wants multiple years - as I said before that’s completely understandable to pass.   If it’s just a 1-year signing it’s not a team killer either way but I’d put my eggs there.  Guess we’ll see this year how it works out.   In a perfect world Anderson makes it moot - but the likelihood we need our 3rd T to play meaningful snaps is almost a given in today’s NFL.  

Both Massie and Kelly are 31 and entered the NFL in 2012. Outside of 2013, Massie has started every game he's appeared in. 110 of them. last year was Kellys 1st as a starter. 

I wouldn't really care much either way. Massie has the better track record Kelly may be healthier.  It's just a coin flip talent wise with an edge to Massie as a perennial starter. Anderson may well get a few starts at RT also.

[Cutler06]

I don't know about you, but seems more and more likely you've heard the last of Ja'Wuan James here in Denver

[BroncoBruin]

Fleming also has a Stanford degree in aeronautics and astronautics. Really dumb guy. 

[7DnBrnc53]

Fleming isn't a bad backup, but I would rather have had Jermaine Elemenuor (or however you spell it). He can be a RT, and he can also be backup inside as well.