drfrey13 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 3 hours ago, NYRaider said: I wanted Stefon Diggs so bad when he came out of Maryland who was also selected in the 5th round, we took Jon Feliciano instead, lol. I was a fan of Diggs also. Easy choice in the 5th. He has outperformed what almost everyone thought he would become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, drfrey13 said: I think it depends. A good quality starter has minimal impact and helps you sleep at night but if you can get a true lockdown CB that frees up your defense to do a lot. A DC loves it when they can look at the next game and say we do not need to worry about player A so we can scheme to shut down xyz. Being able to take a way a teams 2 best options is huge. If you just have a good CB you may still need to scheme o help him out which opens up the door for others to go off. Agreed but they still lack in run support more often and also still require help. Not too many people you can throw on an island and have been great at run support. Plus in the old-school days, when you only had 2 WRs, a TE (whom others can cover) a RB and FB, I feel CBs were more valuable. Now, when teams have 4 viable receiving options, one CB can shut down 25% of the targets. Yes, it might be a huge target but how many more are great WRs? Looking at our game on Saturday, we are going against Chase, Boyd, and Higgins. One shut down CB might shut down one but the other two are absolute monsters. Give me someone who can get after Burrow every snap rather than someone who might just become a side note. Just my personal opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 22 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: Agreed but they still lack in run support more often and also still require help. Not too many people you can throw on an island and have been great at run support. Plus in the old-school days, when you only had 2 WRs, a TE (whom others can cover) a RB and FB, I feel CBs were more valuable. Now, when teams have 4 viable receiving options, one CB can shut down 25% of the targets. Yes, it might be a huge target but how many more are great WRs? Looking at our game on Saturday, we are going against Chase, Boyd, and Higgins. One shut down CB might shut down one but the other two are absolute monsters. Give me someone who can get after Burrow every snap rather than someone who might just become a side note. Just my personal opinion Very valid points. There are not a lot of teams that have a dominant #1 and then a #2 that can defeat a #2. Teams are always going to put up yards but if you can reduce there ability to move the ball you reduce their ability to score points. You also have to remember it is possible to stop a dominant pass rusher and they are rare also. I really just want to make sure we are drafting players who have a very high potential to become above average starters in the first couple rounds. Our hit rate in the first 2 rounds is pretty low and first 3 rounds might be the worst in the league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 32 minutes ago, drfrey13 said: Very valid points. There are not a lot of teams that have a dominant #1 and then a #2 that can defeat a #2. Teams are always going to put up yards but if you can reduce there ability to move the ball you reduce their ability to score points. You also have to remember it is possible to stop a dominant pass rusher and they are rare also. I really just want to make sure we are drafting players who have a very high potential to become above average starters in the first couple rounds. Our hit rate in the first 2 rounds is pretty low and first 3 rounds might be the worst in the league. Oh you're absolutely right. Finding an elite DE is tough as well but, IMO, an elite DE brings more to the table than an elite CB. A lot more. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: Oh you're absolutely right. Finding an elite DE is tough as well but, IMO, an elite DE brings more to the table than an elite CB. A lot more. Having an elite cb is great, but the key is having corners who are not obvious liabilities. Even facyson in reality is a serviceable 2 this year. He gets picked on some, but also makes some plays too. That is pretty hard to find considering all the first round corner busts. For most corners the problem is movement skills are not valued enough over long speed. Give me the gifted change of direction guy over the guy who runs fast but is stiff as a board. You see teams reach on corners who run fast but suck time and time again. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Also I’m not nearly down on Mullen. He looked good pre injury. Obviously he wasn’t fully healthy and he hasn’t really missed games prior to this year so we’ll see next year. But I’m high on him still. I only take a CB if it’s a potentially elite one. I like Gardner, Stingley, and Kaiir Elam is growing on me too. He has really nice ball skills. That’s the one area we can improve at corner. Our takeaways at CB are atrocious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaulthe1st Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 2 hours ago, BobbyPhil1781 said: Agreed but they still lack in run support more often and also still require help. Not too many people you can throw on an island and have been great at run support. Plus in the old-school days, when you only had 2 WRs, a TE (whom others can cover) a RB and FB, I feel CBs were more valuable. Now, when teams have 4 viable receiving options, one CB can shut down 25% of the targets. Yes, it might be a huge target but how many more are great WRs? Looking at our game on Saturday, we are going against Chase, Boyd, and Higgins. One shut down CB might shut down one but the other two are absolute monsters. Give me someone who can get after Burrow every snap rather than someone who might just become a side note. Just my personal opinion I agree with this. Getting pressure on the QB is the #1 way to disrupt an offense. Interior pressure is THE most desirable type of pressure because even if you don’t get the sack it flushes a QB to the right or left and shuts down one side of the field. Pressure from the edge is also very valuable but 32 out of 32 teams would take Prime Aaron Donald over Prime Khalil Mack. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Having an elite cb is great, but the key is having corners who are not obvious liabilities. Even facyson in reality is a serviceable 2 this year. He gets picked on some, but also makes some plays too. That is pretty hard to find considering all the first round corner busts. For most corners the problem is movement skills are not valued enough over long speed. Give me the gifted change of direction guy over the guy who runs fast but is stiff as a board. You see teams reach on corners who run fast but suck time and time again. this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Kaiir elam fan club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Booth is also really good but IMO he'll go before our pick: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyPhil1781 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Having an elite cb is great, but the key is having corners who are not obvious liabilities. Even facyson in reality is a serviceable 2 this year. He gets picked on some, but also makes some plays too. That is pretty hard to find considering all the first round corner busts. For most corners the problem is movement skills are not valued enough over long speed. Give me the gifted change of direction guy over the guy who runs fast but is stiff as a board. You see teams reach on corners who run fast but suck time and time again. Yep. I'd rather have 3 above average, at worst, CBs than one elite person eating up cap space allotted to that position group. Agree with your assessment on what you would prefer as well. The CBs best friend is a solid pass rush though as games as won in the trenches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) Believe by PPFs WAR, CB is the most important position on D. Most sacks are coverage sacks, and most completions the ball is thrown before pressure arrives even against the best pass rushes. The run game defense is a fair point and it is likely scheme dependant but it is hugely valuable. McCreary, Elam, Gardner would all be excellent picks imo. Travon Walker would be my pick for D-Line, absolute freak who is super raw but his measurables will be insane which is hugely important for DE/DTs. Edited January 14, 2022 by Jraider91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaulthe1st Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 4 hours ago, Jraider91 said: Believe by PPFs WAR, CB is the most important position on D. Most sacks are coverage sacks, and most completions the ball is thrown before pressure arrives even against the best pass rushes. The run game defense is a fair point and it is likely scheme dependant but it is hugely valuable. McCreary, Elam, Gardner would all be excellent picks imo. Travon Walker would be my pick for D-Line, absolute freak who is super raw but his measurables will be insane which is hugely important for DE/DTs. If you were building a defense from scratch would you start with prime Aaron Donald or prime Jalen Ramsey? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 16 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said: Also I’m not nearly down on Mullen. He looked good pre injury. Obviously he wasn’t fully healthy and he hasn’t really missed games prior to this year so we’ll see next year. But I’m high on him still. I only take a CB if it’s a potentially elite one. I like Gardner, Stingley, and Kaiir Elam is growing on me too. He has really nice ball skills. That’s the one area we can improve at corner. Our takeaways at CB are atrocious. There's a couple of guys I wouldn't mind snagging day 2. With Mullen, Facyson, Hobbs (if he keeps his ish together), and Hayward likely all being back, a rookie won't have to start. But adding someone with some ball skills would be nice, and necessary. Father time will catch Hayward eventually. Better to have someone ready to step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy408 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: There's a couple of guys I wouldn't mind snagging day 2. With Mullen, Facyson, Hobbs (if he keeps his ish together), and Hayward likely all being back, a rookie won't have to start. But adding someone with some ball skills would be nice, and necessary. Father time will catch Hayward eventually. Better to have someone ready to step up. That's what I've been saying. If you keep the pass rush intact, you can start Mullen and Faycson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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