jpaulthe1st Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, BayRaider said: If you check the stats, offensive points scored, and DVOA, yes… sounds ridiculous, but yes. Hopkins is wayyyyy better than Fuller but if there was a stat such as WAR for the NFL, Fuller would be ahead. Go ahead and check out how much different the Texans were with and without Fuller. Hopkins is phenomenal, but he doesn’t change how defenses play. Fuller basically opens the middle of the field the entire game, because they have to respect the back end. I’m never going to agree with this simply on the basis that a speedy sub 4.4 WR is easier to replace than an elite WR1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Wide Receiver is one of the most important positions in the modern NFL, it used to be the icing and now it is part of the cake. Colin Cowherd said that the other day and whilst I am loathed to agree with him, he is correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Just now, jpaulthe1st said: I love the arbitrary 1/100th of a second line between 4.33 and 4.34. Pure comedy You have to draw a point somewhere, to make a statement. At some point speed is less effective is the point I was making. I didn’t actually mean there was a big difference between 4.33 and 4.34 and you read too much into my post. I’m just saying at a certain point, defenses will respect speed less. There is a huge different from Low 4.3 to High 4.3 when it comes to defensive respect and overall impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, BayRaider said: You have to draw a point somewhere, to make a statement. At some point speed is less effective is the point I was making. I didn’t actually mean there was a big difference between 4.33 and 4.34 and you read too much into my post. I’m just saying at a certain point, defenses will respect speed less. There is a huge different from Low 4.3 to High 4.3 when it comes to defensive respect and overall impact. And game speed/timed speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said: I’m never going to agree with this simply on the basis that a speedy sub 4.4 WR is easier to replace than an elite WR1. Houston's offense and Watson's numbers were significantly better when Fuller played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 22 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: Wide Receiver is one of the most important positions in the modern NFL, it used to be the icing and now it is part of the cake. Colin Cowherd said that the other day and whilst I am loathed to agree with him, he is correct. I mean look at the 4 teams left, the Bengals have Chase, Chiefs have Hill, 49ers have Deebo, and Rams have Kupp. Having an elite, dominant #1 WR completely changes the way that teams defend against you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I mean look at the 4 teams left, the Bengals have Chase, Chiefs have Hill, 49ers have Deebo, and Rams have Kupp. Having an elite, dominant #1 WR completely changes the way that teams defend against you. You can make an argument that it is the only position every team has a truly elite player. Edited January 27, 2022 by Jraider91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: You can make an argument that it is the only position every team has a truly elite player. Deebo is far from elite… good WR but come on. The Shanahan’s have a knack for getting the most out of RB’s and WR’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Jraider91 said: You can make an argument that it is the only position each team has a truly elite player. Essentially every team that made the playoffs outside of us and the Patriots had a very good/elite #1 WR. The 4 I mentioned, then Adams (Packers), Brown (Titans), Johnson (Steelers), Evans (Bucs), Diggs (Bills), Smith (Eagles, looked very good as a rookie), Lamb (Cowboys), Hopkins (Cardinals, fell off post injury). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 27, 2022 Author Share Posted January 27, 2022 Just now, BayRaider said: Deebo is far from elite… good WR but come on. The Shanahan’s have a knack for getting the most out of RB’s and WR’s. Deebo was 5th in the league in receiving yards despite having a three game stretch where he played almost exclusively at RB and only had 3 receptions for 49 yards. On the year he finished with 77/1405/6 receiving and 59/385/8 rushing. You are going to say he's not elite? lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 minute ago, BayRaider said: Deebo is far from elite… good WR but come on. The Shanahan’s have a knack for getting the most out of RB’s and WR’s. He lead the league in yards per route, yards after catch and yards per reception. I made the mistake you did and was set straight on it, he is every bit elite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Just now, NYRaider said: Deebo was 5th in the league in receiving yards despite having a three game stretch where he played almost exclusively at RB and only had 3 receptions for 49 yards. On the year he finished with 77/1405/6 receiving and 59/385/8 rushing. You are going to say he's not elite? lol Kyle Shanahan, baby. That family will make any good WR or RB look elite with their scheme. Always have. Don’t get me wrong, Deebo is VERY good. But if you think he’s on par with those other guys, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 Just now, BayRaider said: Kyle Shanahan, baby. That family will make any good WR or RB look elite with their scheme. Always have. Don’t get me wrong, Deebo is VERY good. But if you think he’s on par with those other guys, lol. RB yes, WR no you are literally just pulling that out of your ***. You can't scheme a WR elite production, that isn't possible. That is literally the point. How do you scheme a guy 18 YPC. Absolute nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaulthe1st Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 14 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I mean look at the 4 teams left, the Bengals have Chase, Chiefs have Hill, 49ers have Deebo, and Rams have Kupp. Having an elite, dominant #1 WR completely changes the way that teams defend against you. But wait…I thought having a speedy deep threat was the most important aspect of offensive value? You just argued that exact point. Make up your mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: RB yes, WR no you are literally just pulling that out of your ***. You can't scheme a WR elite production, that isn't possible. That is literally the point. How do you scheme a guy 18 YPC. Absolute nonsense. If you would take Deebo over Adams, Hill, Kupp, or Chase, yikesss. Chase is still developing but he will be a monster. Samuel is not on their level, and choosing him over any of those guys would be ridiculous. But to each their own, and agree to disagree. And yes, Shanahan is the best at scheming open WR’s of any coach in the past 20 years. His route concepts are pure genius and flawless. Edited January 27, 2022 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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