Bill Lazor; The Plan To Develop Justin Fields

[dll2000]

11 hours ago, Sugashane said:

For the last 30 years sometimes you couldn't tell if we did or not. lol

I think collective decisions of this board have been superior to what Bears decisions have been.

Or the ones that agree with mine anyway.  

[G08]

9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

IMO there’s no reason whatsoever Fields shouldn’t be afforded the opportunity to compete for the starting gig on an even playing field with Andy Dalton though.

I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. If Fields demonstrates he's ready AND the coaches feel he gives us the best chance to win, then he had better play. 

[G08]

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

He will get a handful of 1st team reps.

I think many of us would prefer him to get a majority of the reps.

He still will get reps with DeFilippo leading on the plays / scheme that best fit him. I hope you understand this. 

[AZBearsFan]

48 minutes ago, G08 said:

I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. If Fields demonstrates he's ready AND the coaches feel he gives us the best chance to win, then he had better play. 

Agreed. Then it comes down to what they consider “ready.” For me that’s once he’s able to come in and be effective, but for Nagy does that mean ready not to piss down his leg, ready to dominate or something in between? I think for sure it will factor what level of “rookie mistakes” they’re prepared to accept. My thought on those is that at least some of those are going to happen whether he plays week 1 or not until 2022.

August can’t get here soon enough. I haven’t looked forward to a Bears season this much in a while. 

[soulman]

1 hour ago, dll2000 said:

I think collective decisions of this board have been superior to what Bears decisions have been.

Or the ones that agree with mine anyway.  

LOLOL.....well of course.  😁

Actually I can't totally disagree but then we kinda lack all of the knowledge, info, and internal discussions the team has had at it's disposal.  I sense there are times even they would have preferred to have made other choices if somehow they could have.

[AZBearsFan]

3 hours ago, WindyCity said:

We just watched the Bears run an offense that Mitch could run at a reasonable level.

There is no reason we cannot insert Justin Fields into that offense, that was very QB and OL friendly and then build it up over the course of the season from there.

The onus should be on Nagy to craft and offense that allows Fields to develop as we go.

This is where I’m at with it too, and the offense Mitch ran would be more effective with Fields IMO because he can actually hit those open plays Mitch consistently missed on at the 2nd and 3rd level, and is far more of a running threat on the PA boot action. 

Edited May 20, 2021 by AZBearsFan

[soulman]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. If Fields demonstrates he's ready AND the coaches feel he gives us the best chance to win, then he had better play. 

That part is 100% true.

What the Football Forum Chicago Bears Assistant HC Association is arguing about is only the best way to arrive at the point where Fields is ready to start and once again everyone has his own opinion on display.

Will someone please check in with Matt Nagy to find out if we actually get a vote on it?  😏

[AZBearsFan]

4 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

This is where I’m at with it too, and the offense Mitch ran would be more effective with Fields IMO because he can actually hit those open plays Mitch consistently missed on at the 2nd and 3rd level, and is far more of a running threat on the PA boot action. 

That scheme tore apart average and subpar teams even when run by a subpar QB. It failed against good teams because of the subpar QB play. It should compete against good teams with even adequate QB play. I don’t think it’s a super high bar to think Fields can run it at or beyond the level Mitch did. I don’t think many would argue he isn’t already capable of relying on his OL to help him dissect what he’s seeing pre-snap at the line and go through schemed half field reads while he becomes more acclimated. Even those of us who want to see him get every chance to play right away aren’t suggesting he should be expected to run the full playbook week 1. 

[soulman]

3 hours ago, WindyCity said:

He will get a handful of 1st team reps.

I think many of us would prefer him to get a majority of the reps.

Windy, what many of us prefer is worth about as much as the ticket stub I saved to the first run showing of Titanic.

We don't even know how many first team reps he'll get.  If he's that much closer to starting than most rookies it could be more than the "usual". 

And once he has been deemed ready to start I expect he will get the majority of the reps it just won't start out that way because Dalton is in the captain's chair until he's not.  I also don't see them holding Fields back once he's the best choice.

[G08]

3 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

That scheme tore apart average and subpar teams even when run by a subpar QB. It failed against good teams because of the subpar QB play.

I'm of the opinion they wouldn't open up the playcalling with taking deep shots -- Trubisky openly bitched about this during a presser -- but it is what it is.

I'll likely go to my grave saying that Trubisky would have been a top 10-15 QB in Kyle Shanahan's offense.

[WindyCity]

1 hour ago, G08 said:

He still will get reps with DeFilippo leading on the plays / scheme that best fit him. I hope you understand this. 

I hope you understand that I am concerned with rep volume and the #2, unless it is an open competition, is not getting anywhere near the same volume.

I do not care if DeFillipo is literally holding his hand for 5 reps... 15 reps is better.

[WindyCity]

26 minutes ago, G08 said:

I'm of the opinion they wouldn't open up the playcalling with taking deep shots -- Trubisky openly bitched about this during a presser -- but it is what it is.

I'll likely go to my grave saying that Trubisky would have been a top 10-15 QB in Kyle Shanahan's offense.

Mitch couldn't hit deep shots even when they were schemed open. He may have been the worst deep passer I have watched by the end of his Bears tenure.

Fields I agree. That would be the natural improvement to the offense. He is very good on the deep ball and has a super aggressive mindset.

[WindyCity]

My concern is that we know Fields is playing and I want him to have maximum reps before he does.

Lets say hypothetically there are 1000 reps in camp, who knows the exact number, but that will keep the math clean.

Lets assume a 65-35 split between Dalton and Fields and Foles stands around like big bird. Which is in line with what Hoge and Jahns said the breakdown has been under Nagy.

Dalton: 650 reps

Fields: 350 reps
 

That 300 reps is a big deal and will not be made up before Fields starts.

Most of Fields reps will come with the #2 guys. That means fewer reps with Robinson and Mooney. Now we are going to need to develop that chemistry on the fly during the season?

 

Fewer reps, less chemistry with the #1 offensive guys, it just doesn't make sense to me when we know this guy is going to be the starter at some point in 2021.

 

 

[dll2000]

Facts:

Naming Dalton starter means he gets starter reps.  Nagy has confirmed this.   Starter reps means bulk of reps and with first team.

Ratios can vary, but it is still less.   

So by not being starter Fields will get less practice time or he will physically be there, but be receiving less reps in practice.   

Theory:  it is better to go slow for a new QB so there is less pressure and he can learn at his pace without the pressure to play.

Theory:  It is better to play from get go.  

Evidence always presented is Rodgers and Mahomes.   Teams went slow with them and they succeeded.   They say it was good for them because they got to learn slow at their own pace, etc.  

Counter evidence is Wilson, Manning, Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger ... and many other guys who started right away and succeeded.   They all say they it was good they got reps and played.   it was trial by fire and forced them to work really hard.  

Counter evidence to that is guys who started right away and busted - many examples.  

Counter evidence to that is guys who didn't start right away and still busted - many examples.

Correlation can be attributed to either method and is not conclusive.   People just pick their favorite.

____

There are many studies on learning skills and teaching (which is what bulk of coaching is).

You would have to find me a study that says watching is most efficient way to learn something. 

East example,  I watch youtube videos on how to fix things on car or around house and i have to watch it a bunch before I can actually do it.    Once I do it, if I did it again it would take my like 15 minutes.

If I had a handyman that could watch and coach me while I did it, it would cut the time way down.   Because I could just dive in.    If I just watched him do it, and then tried it myself it is same as watching the youtube video.  Takes longer.    

Some form of doing with instruction is best and fastest way to get better at something.   

You don't really need studies to know this.   This is common sense.

This is what I am trying to say.    Yes it worked for Mahomes and Rodgers.   But they could have gotten to Mahomes and Rodgers faster by getting more practice reps.

The concerns are all mental and are valid.   Losing the player due to repeated failure before they are ready.  Then perhaps bad habits develop due to pressing or pressure.

These are legit concerns.   I am sure many players were ruined by playing them too quickly or behind a subpar O line.  

But it doesn't change fact that you are choosing the slower learning method.

I think these concerns and the risk involved in starting right away are offset by benefit of having a player ready to go faster under a rookie contract.

 

 

 

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

[dll2000]

Continued ... 

Way I would do it is give Fields starter reps 70/30 with Dalton and plan on starting Dalton unless Fields shows me he is sufficiently ready to go and feels comfortable.

A hybrid model.   I might even split game reps some.  

 But under no circumstances would I give Dalton the majority of practice reps in camp or in season.

He doesn't matter.   Only Fields development matters.