Realistic discussion on McCarthy: Should He stay or should he go?

[Pugger]

4 minutes ago, skibrett15 said:

I posted a thread here last year when Sam Hinkie was fired, and it asked the question: what is or should be the ultimate goal of the GB Packers?

Oversimplification of the options:

1) win the most possible titles over a given time span, no matter how low the lows are in between

2) stay a contender and playoff team for as long a stretch as possible, even if it means your chance of winning a title over the span is lower.

3) try to win as many games as possible

4) something else

 

So yeah, for those inviting a total re-boot of coaching staff and FO, ask yourself what the priority is and should be.

#2 for me.  Get into the playoffs as often as you can.  If you can get in anything can happen.  We witnessed that in 2010.

[skibrett15]

yeah, #2 is supposed to read that your expected titles are lower than #1, but your expected playoff count is higher and you are a more stable team year to year.

[TheOnlyThing]

12 hours ago, incognito_man said:

you guys remember when the Giants fired Tom Coughlin for their replacement?

How'd that go?

Just a friendly reminder that change isn't good for change's sake.

Not nearly as well as Denver firing Fox after he led them to the Super Bowl and replacing him with Kubiak who led them to a Super Bowl victory.

Just a friendly reminder that continuity for continuity sake can lead to year after year after year of subpar defenses all coordinated by the same guy.

[Packerraymond]

Between Dom, Ted and Mac I'm pretty done trying to defend them. All 3 have had a rough year. I'm not going to be shouting to fire any of them, but I'm at the point where I will not be disappointed if any are canned.

Mac would be shocking though. Dom and Ted are old, they have the retirement card that the organization can use to remove them without firing them. Mac would have to be straight up fired. Only way that happens is if Ted goes and Ball/Dorsey/Wolf don't want Mac as the HC anymore.

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, Slinky said:

There's always that chance when making any coaching change, obviously.

But sitting on your hands and doing the same thing over and over, failing over and over, isn't a recipe for success either. 

I'm not sure anyone is absolutely locking out the idea of making a change.  I'm talking about those that want to burn things down, and start new.  I'm talking about the posters who want substantial change.  If you're not willing to risk that we're worse off, then I'm not taking your argument very seriously.

[TheOnlyThing]

2 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

Between Dom, Ted and Mac I'm pretty done trying to defend them. All 3 have had a rough year.

Seems like fewer and fewer Packer fans are willing to defend Ted and Mac. (Pretty sure, it was already down to a select few who were defending Dom even before this season began).

I just wonder where this discussion would be if ARod had not gone down and he continued to mask the glaring deficiencies by leading the team to a 7-1 record?

[{Family Ghost}]

40 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Seems like fewer and fewer Packer fans are willing to defend Ted and Mac. (Pretty sure, it was already down to a select few who were defending Dom even before this season began).

I just wonder where this discussion would be if ARod had not gone down and he continued to mask the glaring deficiencies by leading the team to a 7-1 record?

I think Mac would be golden if that happened.  It would show it wasn't all about Aaron and that Mac was a master commander who could keep things going even in the worst of situations.  We clearly do not have that though .. Mac is 2-8-1 in games without his hall of fame qb.  

As for Ted .. very shaky last few season at the top.  The drafts have failed to produce high quality results ... misses in free agency when it comes to some signing, resigning, and failures to sign.  

Capers probably is safe if the Packers are rolling along with Rodgers at 7-1, even thought he's been the captain of a defense that continually fails against good qb's.

I wish I trusted in Mark Murphy more .. would be awesome to find out he was really in tune with who the best in business are at GM, HC, etc .. just not sure he is.  If he thought he had a top GM ready to commit to GB I'd probably make that move and allow that GM the opportunity to keep or fire McCarthy.  If McCarthy is viewed as a top guy he's surely be kept.  

[Packerraymond]

45 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Seems like fewer and fewer Packer fans are willing to defend Ted and Mac. (Pretty sure, it was already down to a select few who were defending Dom even before this season began).

I just wonder where this discussion would be if ARod had not gone down and he continued to mask the glaring deficiencies by leading the team to a 7-1 record?

I'd rather Mac not be fired. See Brett Favre/Sherman, Caldwell/Manning for how hard it is for a new coach to take the reigns of a HOF QB. Mac and him work fine, he holds Aaron accountable. How many deficiencies could a 7-1 team have? You're 7-1. Part of me wonders how much of the game is already lost mentally by our players (all of them used to being a SB contender every time they take the field, now they are nothing more than playing week to week) before we even take the field. 

[SpeightTheVillain]

1 hour ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Seems like fewer and fewer Packer fans are willing to defend Ted and Mac. (Pretty sure, it was already down to a select few who were defending Dom even before this season began).

I just wonder where this discussion would be if ARod had not gone down and he continued to mask the glaring deficiencies by leading the team to a 7-1 record?

What deficiencies?

You realize this is a zero sum game?

Winning 87.5% of your games is deficient?

Some people just expect too much. The other teams have the best players in the world too

[TheOnlyThing]

36 minutes ago, SpeightTheVillain said:

What deficiencies?

You realize this is a zero sum game?

Winning 87.5% of your games is deficient?

Some people just expect too much. The other teams have the best players in the world too

Winning 20% of your games without ARod out of the lineup in 2013 & 2017, including 0-3 with your preferred and groomed backup QB this year = "What deficiencies?"

Losing, at home, after coming off a bye, to a 3-4 Lions team on a 3-game losing streak, that had 1 win in 25 years in Wisconsin, by a score of 30-10 as the clock ran out = "What deficiencies?"

Are you Ted or MIke kin?

[TheOnlyThing]

1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

I'd rather Mac not be fired. 

Why Dom still has a job is one of the great mysteries of our time. I doubt more than 10% of the fan base would object if he was fired today.

I am ambivalent about McCarthy. 

I agree that if ARod wants him around, sure let him stay for the reasons you articulate.

But it is also true that McCarthy has kept Dom and that underperforming D on year after year and that in itself is a fireable offense.

[SpeightTheVillain]

27 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Winning 20% of your games without ARod out of the lineup in 2013 & 2017, including 0-3 with your preferred and groomed backup QB this year = "What deficiencies?"

Losing, at home, after coming off a bye, to a 3-4 Lions team on a 3-game losing streak, that had 1 win in 25 years in Wisconsin, by a score of 30-10 as the clock ran out = "What deficiencies?"

Are you Ted or MIke kin?

That was not your argument

[packfanfb]

9 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I'm not sure anyone is absolutely locking out the idea of making a change.  I'm talking about those that want to burn things down, and start new.  I'm talking about the posters who want substantial change.  If you're not willing to risk that we're worse off, then I'm not taking your argument very seriously.

I guess it just depends on how you currently see things. MM I don't really care if he stays or goes. I'd lean towards cya, but if he stays so be it. Just don't get in Rodgers' way and let him go win games. With Capers however, for me, its rock bottom so I'm perfectly fine with the "you have to be able to accept it if things get worse" mantra bc I dont see how that is possible. Right now, if it was the Super Bowl and I had to pick the one single defense I would not want on the field with 2 mins left and a stop was needed to win...I'd pick GB. That's where this defense is under Capers. There is no risk if he goes IMO.

[LacyIsGood]

On 11/9/2017 at 12:06 PM, RoellPreston88 said:

MM's deal is up after the 2018 season, so unless Murphy wants him to coach as a lame duck in 2018, he will have to extend him this offseason.

Wow, that makes this much more interesting.  So if the Packers don't move on from MM this year, and they likely extend him, that would be quite the tenure.  How many coaches in NFL history have been the HC of their team that long?

[{Family Ghost}]

15 minutes ago, LacyIsGood said:

Wow, that makes this much more interesting.  So if the Packers don't move on from MM this year, and they likely extend him, that would be quite the tenure.  How many coaches in NFL history have been the HC of their team that long?

I want to try something else while we still have a generational talent at Qb.  Mccarthy and Thompson have had six cracks at getting back to the super bowl and haven't been able to get it done.  Do we want to keep giving them more chances?