(Poll) Rank the QBs You'd Take Over Baker for At Least the Next 5 Years?

[MWil23]

Kyler Murray is the most overrated player in the league in as long as I can remember. Having him Top 10 is hysterical.

If anything, Tannehill you have too low.

Edited September 5, 2021 by MWil23

[mtmmike]

12 hours ago, buno67 said:

I think it’s a by product of systems. His time in NY, they weren’t Learning new systems because of Eli. 1st yr in Cleveland , you got Freddie trying to install the hillbilly version of the Arian offense and than yr 2 it was Stef’s system. This year should be a lot different cause there is no learning, it’s about mastering and expanding 

7000 yards 7 years he is elite

Just ask Carter and Owens.

[Empire Lies]

4 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Hahahahahahaha

Dude hasn’t even thrown an NFL pass yet.

Since it's so laughable, try your hand at the task of Ranking the top 12 QBs for the Upcoming Season.

Let's see what you come up with.

BUT .... The criteria for ranking is simple: Replace Baker with the QB in question on the Browns then ask yourself if the projected combination of strengths and weaknesses of that QB elevates the Browns offense overall relative to what Baker offers.

Baker with Freddie Kitchens is different from Baker with Kevin Stefanski.

So to is Trevor Lawrence different under Darrell Bevel / Brian Schottenheimer / Urban Meyer and the Jaguars offense versus what I think Trevor Lawrence would be with his athleticism and ability on this team with Kevin Stefanski's offense.

Where does Baker rank?

Who in the Top 12 on your list is clearly above Baker, clearly below, or debatably above or below.

In the end, I had it as very debatable and went back and forth but ultimately chose Trevor Lawrence over Baker b/c of the projection of skills into the Stefanski offense.

4 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Kyler Murray is the most overrated player in the league in as long as I can remember. Having him Top 10 is hysterical.

If anything, Tannehill you have too low.

Kyler Murray ran for 819 yards and 11 TDs with a 26 to 12 Passing TD to INT ratio. Almost 4,000 yards passing and a 67% completion rate with old man Larry Fitzgerald, a bad OLine, superstar DeAndre Hopkins and in an offense that most competent football experts have analyzed to be ridiculously simplistic and unimaginative Offensive scheme by Kliff Kingsbury.

Context of coaching and surrounding talent matters.

He's been in the league 2 years.

He was picked #1 b/c the Cardinals were the worst team in the league. That means he's dealt with one of the worst rosters in the league as of recent.

There's a reason Josh Rosen was terrible with the Cardinals before Kyler got picked and that's because the talent on the team and coaching was terrible.

Kyler impressed year 1 and coming into last year, Kyler was one of the leading candidates thought to win MVP for a reason. He didn't reach that but he balled out still. 

Kliff Kingsbury's offense is terrible, simplistic and the entire league has figured it out. Their talent is middling and below average besides DeAndre Hopkins.

How would Murray's skills project on this roster with these coaches? He'd be debatably better than Baker to me in this scheme.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Empire Lies

[MWil23]

Troll’s are gonna troll 😈 

[Empire Lies]

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Troll’s are gonna troll 😈 

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, Empire Lies said:

Hey now, you don’t get to disappear for a year+ and come back without taking some medicine.  

Doing a GDT would help your cause

[buno67]

From PFF for their most underrated tea

“From Week 7 through the postseason of last year, Mayfield ranked second among quarterbacks in passing grade (91.8), fifth in big-time throw rate (6.6%) and first in turnover-worthy play rate (1.6%). The Browns quarterback and head coach Kevin Stefanski were clicking on all cylinders in 2020, and Year 2 of the partnership could cement Mayfield's standing as a top-10 quarterback.”

If 12 QBs would magically improve, coach Stef must be Damn near a god and the FO better not extend Baker. 

 

 

[DawgX]

30 minutes ago, buno67 said:

From PFF for their most underrated tea

“From Week 7 through the postseason of last year, Mayfield ranked second among quarterbacks in passing grade (91.8), fifth in big-time throw rate (6.6%) and first in turnover-worthy play rate (1.6%). The Browns quarterback and head coach Kevin Stefanski were clicking on all cylinders in 2020, and Year 2 of the partnership could cement Mayfield's standing as a top-10 quarterback.”

If 12 QBs would magically improve, coach Stef must be Damn near a god and the FO better not extend Baker. 

 

 

Yeah, but Jimmy G is better.

[buno67]

1 hour ago, DawgX said:

Yeah, but Jimmy G is better.

You imagine Jimmy g with with stef...godly

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

You imagine Jimmy g with with stef...godly

Really?

That much better than with Shanahan?

[Empire Lies]

3 hours ago, buno67 said:

From PFF for their most underrated tea

“From Week 7 through the postseason of last year, Mayfield ranked second among quarterbacks in passing grade (91.8), fifth in big-time throw rate (6.6%) and first in turnover-worthy play rate (1.6%). The Browns quarterback and head coach Kevin Stefanski were clicking on all cylinders in 2020, and Year 2 of the partnership could cement Mayfield's standing as a top-10 quarterback.”

If 12 QBs would magically improve, coach Stef must be Damn near a god and the FO better not extend Baker. 

 

If you want to cite PFF, one could also cite that PFF had Baker Mayfield ranked #13 amongst all QBs last year.

It's not magic. And no one said that it's 12 QBs as easy choices over Baker though it probably feels good to bask in the simplicity of that misframing of the discussion.

 What was said however was:

On 9/4/2021 at 1:57 AM, Empire Lies said:

I think Baker falls in the 10 to 12 range but it could be debatable that he'd be as high as #8.

It is also funny and par for the course on this forum that hardly anyone except for 2 ppl with somewhat incomplete lists have offered up list and provided any justifications for their lists. 

I'd admit though that the number 12 without any names attached and before doing this exercise seemed like it was way too high of a number, but when I started filling in the names it wasn't.

In each case outside of the "no debate top 5 QBs over Baker," each QB offers more in the run game in terms of TDs and rush yards, as well as being more of a run threat in general. Additionally, most were also more productive passers by various indices relative to Baker given the full body of work last season.

Those that are similarly as productive of passers (Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray) were far more productive as runners. Ultimately, though as I said, it's about projecting what such players would be with the Stefanski in this scheme as this scheme is a game breaker when the QB on a boot or play action is a run threat on the edge with the numbers advantage. That's what pushed a lot of the guys debatably over Baker.

Boxscore stats without context don't mean much, but the overall numbers and analytics don't lie. 

No Debate - I'd Take Over Baker:

1.) Patrick Mahomes 
(308 rush yards; 2Rush TDs -- approx 4700 Pass yards; 66.3% Comp Rate; 38 to 6 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

2.) Aaron Rodgers 
(149 rush yards; 3 Rush TDs -- approx 4300 Pass yards; 70% Comp Rate; 48 to 5 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

3.) Russell Wilson 
(512 rush yards; 2 Rush TDs -- approx 4200 Pass yards; 68.8% Comp Rate; 40 to 13 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

4.) Tom Brady 
(6 rush yards; 3 Rush TDs -- approx 4600 Pass yards; 65.7% Comp Rate; 40 to 12 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

5.) Deshaun Watson** 
(444 rush yards; 3 Rush TDs -- approx 4800 Pass yards; 70.2% Comp Rate; 33 to 7 Pass TD to INT Ratio)
(**Strictly Based on Football Play & No Rush to Judgment Either Way Regarding the Assault Allegations**)

Some Debate But I'd Take Over Baker:

6.) Josh Allen
(421 rush yards; 8 Rush TDs -- approx 4500 Pass yards; 69.2% Comp Rate; 37 to 10 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

7.) Lamar Jacksonm
(1,000 rush yards; 7 Rush TDs -- approx 2700 Pass yards; 64.2% Comp Rate; 26 to 9 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

8.) Dak Prescott
(2019 -- 277 rush yards; 3 Rush TDs -- approx 4900 Pass yards; 65% Comp Rate; 30 to 11 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

9.) Kyler Murray
(819 rush yards rushing; 11 Rush TDs -- approx 4,000 Pass yards; 67.2% Comp Rate; 26 to 12 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

Very Debatable But I'd Take Over Baker:

10.) Justin Herbert
(235 rush yards rushing; 5 Rush TDs -- approx 4,300 Pass yards; 67% Comp Rate; 31 to 10 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

11.) Trevor Lawrence
(Rookie Projection with Stefanski)

Where Baker Ranks:

12.) Baker Mayfield (165 rush yards; 1 rush TD; approx 3500 Pass yards; 62.8% Comp Rate; 26 to 9 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

Edited September 6, 2021 by Empire Lies

[buno67]

[buno67]

16 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Really?

That much better than with Shanahan?

@DawgXand I are being sarcastic a$$es

[bruceb]

Doesn't really matter where he ranks or we rank him now.

Will matter where he ranks at the end of the season.

[DawgX]

18 minutes ago, bruceb said:

Doesn't really matter where he ranks or we rank him now.

Will matter where he ranks at the end of the season.

Hopefully he sounds good on the radio this season.