(Poll) Rank the QBs You'd Take Over Baker for At Least the Next 5 Years?

[bruceb]

6 minutes ago, DawgX said:

Hopefully he sounds good on the radio this season.

If not, Donovan and Dieken will let me know.😉 

[Thomas5737]

2 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

It is also funny and par for the course on this forum that hardly anyone except for 2 ppl with somewhat incomplete lists have offered up list and provided any justifications for their lists. 

You've been here a week what do you know?

As a thrower of the football I put Baker #2 behind Mahomes. As far as QBs I'd take over Baker going forward with the knowledge I have of Baker and the limited knowledge elsewhere is Mahomes, Wilson and that's it.

Doesn't mean he is 3rd best but no way I gamble with Brady or Rodgers. I don't trust the arm of Lamar or the accuracy of Allen yet. Watson is eliminated for other reasons. Dak and Murray have the legs advantage but that's it. The young guys (rookies. Burrow, Herbert) are too much of a gamble when you know what you have already.

[Kiwibrown]

1. Mahomes

2. Josh Allen

Justin Herbert gets a strong consideration too, he was unreal last year. 

they are the guys I would take over Baker right now. 

A lot of guys are a better, but they are often older, like Wilson and Rodgers, though Wilson could possibly be in the league for another decade, so he should probably be considered. 

Lamar is such a toss up with all his skills and limitations. 

I wouldnt take Dak over Baker, I think he is less accurate and has taken a big toll on his body with his ankle, shoulder, and play style. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

9 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

 

If you want to cite PFF, one could also cite that PFF had Baker Mayfield ranked #13 amongst all QBs last year.

It's not magic. And no one said that it's 12 QBs as easy choices over Baker though it probably feels good to bask in the simplicity of that misframing of the discussion.

 What was said however was:

It is also funny and par for the course on this forum that hardly anyone except for 2 ppl with somewhat incomplete lists have offered up list and provided any justifications for their lists. 

I'd admit though that the number 12 without any names attached and before doing this exercise seemed like it was way too high of a number, but when I started filling in the names it wasn't.

In each case outside of the "no debate top 5 QBs over Baker," each QB offers more in the run game in terms of TDs and rush yards, as well as being more of a run threat in general. Additionally, most were also more productive passers by various indices relative to Baker given the full body of work last season.

Those that are similarly as productive of passers (Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray) were far more productive as runners. Ultimately, though as I said, it's about projecting what such players would be with the Stefanski in this scheme as this scheme is a game breaker when the QB on a boot or play action is a run threat on the edge with the numbers advantage. That's what pushed a lot of the guys debatably over Baker.

Boxscore stats without context don't mean much, but the overall numbers and analytics don't lie. 

No Debate - I'd Take Over Baker:

1.) Patrick Mahomes 
(308 rush yards; 2Rush TDs -- approx 4700 Pass yards; 66.3% Comp Rate; 38 to 6 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

2.) Aaron Rodgers 
(149 rush yards; 3 Rush TDs -- approx 4300 Pass yards; 70% Comp Rate; 48 to 5 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

3.) Russell Wilson 
(512 rush yards; 2 Rush TDs -- approx 4200 Pass yards; 68.8% Comp Rate; 40 to 13 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

4.) Tom Brady 
(6 rush yards; 3 Rush TDs -- approx 4600 Pass yards; 65.7% Comp Rate; 40 to 12 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

5.) Deshaun Watson** 
(444 rush yards; 3 Rush TDs -- approx 4800 Pass yards; 70.2% Comp Rate; 33 to 7 Pass TD to INT Ratio)
(**Strictly Based on Football Play & No Rush to Judgment Either Way Regarding the Assault Allegations**)

Some Debate But I'd Take Over Baker:

6.) Josh Allen
(421 rush yards; 8 Rush TDs -- approx 4500 Pass yards; 69.2% Comp Rate; 37 to 10 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

7.) Lamar Jacksonm
(1,000 rush yards; 7 Rush TDs -- approx 2700 Pass yards; 64.2% Comp Rate; 26 to 9 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

8.) Dak Prescott
(2019 -- 277 rush yards; 3 Rush TDs -- approx 4900 Pass yards; 65% Comp Rate; 30 to 11 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

9.) Kyler Murray
(819 rush yards rushing; 11 Rush TDs -- approx 4,000 Pass yards; 67.2% Comp Rate; 26 to 12 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

Very Debatable But I'd Take Over Baker:

10.) Justin Herbert
(235 rush yards rushing; 5 Rush TDs -- approx 4,300 Pass yards; 67% Comp Rate; 31 to 10 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

11.) Trevor Lawrence
(Rookie Projection with Stefanski)

Where Baker Ranks:

12.) Baker Mayfield (165 rush yards; 1 rush TD; approx 3500 Pass yards; 62.8% Comp Rate; 26 to 9 Pass TD to INT Ratio)

Sir this is a Wendy’s….

[Empire Lies]

11 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

You've been here a week what do you know?

As a thrower of the football I put Baker #2 behind Mahomes. As far as QBs I'd take over Baker going forward with the knowledge I have of Baker and the limited knowledge elsewhere is Mahomes, Wilson and that's it.

Doesn't mean he is 3rd best but no way I gamble with Brady or Rodgers. I don't trust the arm of Lamar or the accuracy of Allen yet. Watson is eliminated for other reasons. Dak and Murray have the legs advantage but that's it. The young guys (rookies. Burrow, Herbert) are too much of a gamble when you know what you have already.

 

I'm extrapolating from my first week experience here. It seems like these get real cheeks around these parts.

It's an interesting debate.

I don't trust the arm of Allen or Lamar yet either, but their skillsets don't require trust in their arm and especially wouldn't in this scheme.

I understand the hesitancy on Rodgers and Brady and more so in Brady's case.  I think Rodgers has at least has 4 more elite years in the league. The Browns probably would have a better chance to win a Super Bowl in those 4 years than with Baker in those 4 years in my mind. Anything to guarantee just 1 Super Bowl is good enough for me. That's the same argument for Brady for at least 1 year but maybe 2.

I don't think it's a stretch to argue that that Dak Prescott and Kyler Murray are at least equal throwers to Baker based on all the available data. Therefore, the plus run threat advantage, especially in Kyler Murray's case means to me they'd be debatable better in the offense relative to Baker, but it's not at all a clear decision and though in the end I'd take Kyler over Baker, I'd go with Baker over Dak most times.

Indeed, Herbert has a one year sample size, but that one year had all the positives flashes and sustained quality play we've seen from Baker plus deep ball throwing prowess, quality run ability, and the ability to shrug off defenders in the pocket a la a young Big Ben.

If the question was who I'd take for the next 8 years over Baker, I'd probably only take Patrick Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert, and Trevor Lawrence.

I'd be tempted to throw Justin Fields in that group over the longterm as I think he'd be an MVP caliber guy with Stefanski over the course of years.  I think people that hesitate on Kyler Murray haven't really watched him a lot and seen how prolific of a thrower and amazing pinpoint thrower he is. In AZ and out of the national spotlight, it's impossible to catch his games in the Midwest but he's special in a bad scheme with a lot of bad talent around him.

[MWil23]

Imagine disappearing for a year and then pretending to be a different person while simultaneously not taking your medicine from the year before. AmIright @Mind Character

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

4 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Imagine disappearing for a year and then pretending to be a different person while simultaneously not taking your medicine from the year before. AmIright @Mind Character

Yeah you can’t both pretend to know wtf you’re talking about and then not be accepting of a little ball busting when you’re wrong.  
 

I mean, we’re all wrong all the time.  Most of us know we’re idiots tho, so that’s different I suppose….

[NudeTayne]

14 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

You've been here a week what do you know?

This

[Mega Ron]

2 hours ago, Empire Lies said:

 

I'm extrapolating from my first week experience here. It seems like these get real cheeks around these parts.

It's an interesting debate.

I don't trust the arm of Allen or Lamar yet either, but their skillsets don't require trust in their arm and especially wouldn't in this scheme.

I understand the hesitancy on Rodgers and Brady and more so in Brady's case.  I think Rodgers has at least has 4 more elite years in the league. The Browns probably would have a better chance to win a Super Bowl in those 4 years than with Baker in those 4 years in my mind. Anything to guarantee just 1 Super Bowl is good enough for me. That's the same argument for Brady for at least 1 year but maybe 2.

I don't think it's a stretch to argue that that Dak Prescott and Kyler Murray are at least equal throwers to Baker based on all the available data. Therefore, the plus run threat advantage, especially in Kyler Murray's case means to me they'd be debatable better in the offense relative to Baker, but it's not at all a clear decision and though in the end I'd take Kyler over Baker, I'd go with Baker over Dak most times.

Indeed, Herbert has a one year sample size, but that one year had all the positives flashes and sustained quality play we've seen from Baker plus deep ball throwing prowess, quality run ability, and the ability to shrug off defenders in the pocket a la a young Big Ben.

If the question was who I'd take for the next 8 years over Baker, I'd probably only take Patrick Mahomes, Russell Wilson, Kyler Murray, Justin Herbert, and Trevor Lawrence.

I'd be tempted to throw Justin Fields in that group over the longterm as I think he'd be an MVP caliber guy with Stefanski over the course of years.  I think people that hesitate on Kyler Murray haven't really watched him a lot and seen how prolific of a thrower and amazing pinpoint thrower he is. In AZ and out of the national spotlight, it's impossible to catch his games in the Midwest but he's special in a bad scheme with a lot of bad talent around him.

I bet you loved Sam Darnold back in the day.

[NudeTayne]

2 minutes ago, Mega Ron said:

I bet you loved Sam Darnold back in the day.

Go easy on the guy. He's only been here a week.

[Empire Lies]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Imagine disappearing for a year and then pretending to be a different person while simultaneously not taking your medicine from the year before. AmIright @Mind Character

I'm sure that guy I don't know would think that your use of "pretending to be another person"... is very loose interpretation of the word pretending.

I also knew a guy once that said to "eat a bag."

Am I right? @Mind Character

I also knew a guy once that was an "anti-take-mediciner" when around derps, but also generally speaking is a "pro-mediciner" with a medicine passport that allows him to travel to various other forums.

 

 

[Empire Lies]

7 minutes ago, Mega Ron said:

I bet you loved Sam Darnold back in the day.

I can't speak for that other guy... don't know him.

But yes, I kissed the ring of King Sam willingly of whom the Jets kingdom of charlatans and misery has caused a fall from grace.

The non-wordsmithian GM Dorsey and "he gets us" Freddie would've helped Darnold thrive.

[Empire Lies]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

then not be accepting of a little ball busting when you’re wrong. @MWil23

I'm a big fan of mine balls abust.

The bustee rejecting and pushing back against the derp buster in ways of reverse ball bust is part of the ball busters true art.. The Way of the Buster ...

[FGK]

Football Outsiders says #8.

And 538 had him #7 in their ELO projections.

[bruceb]

23 minutes ago, FGK said:

Football Outsiders says #8.

And 538 had him #7 in their ELO projections.

Looks/Sounds about right.