Is Mike Evans a HOF player?

[bucsfan333]

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

50 minutes ago, bucsfan333 said:

 

Lance Alworth wept. 

[Mr Bad Example]

On 11/13/2021 at 8:55 PM, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Lance Alworth wept. 

Maybe they're counting that as AFL history. 

[ET80]

Might not be first ballot, but I'd say yes. He's consistent, he's put up great numbers while in both a good QB situation and a bad QB situation, he's won a SB... what more do you want?

As far as the "he's never been a top 3 WR" argument, I'm going to counter with these two points:

- Rankings such as this are dripping with subjectivity. I'm sure you can find respectable minds who'd put Evans in a top 3 at any given point in his career. 

- For the majority of his career, you couldn't make a solid argument that Evans WASN'T in the top 10 of WRs in the league. Your only real bet was looking at his rookie season (when he was a clear #2 to Vincent Jackson and still put up 1,000 - but was still top 5 among WRs in TD catches) or his 2017 season (right around the time Jameis Winston showed who he was going to be...) Every other year, he was pretty much locked into a 6-10 spot, that consistency is worth something.

Again - not a first ballot sort of guy. But he gets in.

[TecmoSuperJoe]

8 hours ago, Mr Bad Example said:

Maybe they're counting that as AFL history. 

Yeah I figured, which...ok sure technically that's correct. The AFL and NFL at that time though were neck and neck in quality players. 

[Billy86]

On 11/1/2021 at 12:23 AM, BlaqOptic said:

He's got the numbers but at any point in your life have you thought he was a top 3 Wide Receiver? Or even a game breaker? He would get in based on the Frank Gore effect.

I'd say he'd need to crack a good 17-18,000+ yards to get there. You're right on Gore, but only Emmitt Smith, Jerry Rice and Walter Peyton have more scrimmage yards thanhim inths history of the sport. 

Also, someone NEEDS to pick up Gore for a game or two, poor fecker is 16 yards off 20,000. I was quietly pulling for him to achieve it for 3 or 4 years now and didn't think he would... then he almost did... then got injured for what might prove his last ever game. 

Now I'm secretly pulling for every RB in the league to get a 3-4 week injury come December. Really want to see the guy get teh chance to do it, silly as that is. 

[TheKillerNacho]

I'd err on the side of no.

[Mr Bad Example]

10 hours ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

Yeah I figured, which...ok sure technically that's correct. The AFL and NFL at that time though were neck and neck in quality players. 

My response was semi-sarcastic - leaving Alworth out is egregious. 

Then again, I'm the guy who thinks we should consider counting USFL stats - the owners were often sketchy but the product quality probably was close to the early AFL.

 

[SkippyX]

Mike Evans in 2018 averaged 17.7 a catch with 1524 yards and 8 TDs at 11.0 per target. (17+ 1500+ and 11+)

If you pretend that he did not have a fantastic season because voters did not give him a + then you miss the point.

• Torry Holt did this in 2000 with 1635 19.9 and 11.8
• Victor Cruz did this in 2011 with 1536 18.7 and 11.7
• Jerry Rice could have done this in 1986 but they did not track targets then. (with another possible near miss by 13 yards in 1989)

Can anyone find another season of 1500+ yards with 17+ per catch and 11+ per target?

• Isaac Bruce 2000 missed by 21 yards 0.1 yards per catch and 0.1 yards per target (The GSoT was pretty good)
• Moss 2000 missed by 63 yards
• Megatron 2011 missed by 0.4 yards per target
• Cheetah 2018 missed by 21 yards and 0.2 yards per catch.
• Steve Smith 2008 missed by 79 yards
• Santana Moss 2005 missed by 17 yards
• Julio missed by 91 yards and 0.1 yards per catch in 2016 (in 14 games)
• Josh Gordon missed by 0.6 yards per target in 2013

I'm not saying this is the greatest season of all time or anything but its playing like DeSean Jackson through 1500 yards. It just doesn't happen that often.

 

There have only been 47 seasons of 1500+ receiving and most of them are the Harrison, Thomas, Hopkins style of 160-190 targets.

Rob Moore had 1583 yards in 1997 on Arizona. He did this on 208 targets at 7.6 per target.

[BlaqOptic]

On 11/16/2021 at 10:25 PM, SkippyX said:

Mike Evans in 2018 averaged 17.7 a catch with 1524 yards and 8 TDs at 11.0 per target. (17+ 1500+ and 11+)

If you pretend that he did not have a fantastic season because voters did not give him a + then you miss the point.

• Torry Holt did this in 2000 with 1635 19.9 and 11.8
• Victor Cruz did this in 2011 with 1536 18.7 and 11.7
• Jerry Rice could have done this in 1986 but they did not track targets then. (with another possible near miss by 13 yards in 1989)

Can anyone find another season of 1500+ yards with 17+ per catch and 11+ per target?

• Isaac Bruce 2000 missed by 21 yards 0.1 yards per catch and 0.1 yards per target (The GSoT was pretty good)
• Moss 2000 missed by 63 yards
• Megatron 2011 missed by 0.4 yards per target
• Cheetah 2018 missed by 21 yards and 0.2 yards per catch.
• Steve Smith 2008 missed by 79 yards
• Santana Moss 2005 missed by 17 yards
• Julio missed by 91 yards and 0.1 yards per catch in 2016 (in 14 games)
• Josh Gordon missed by 0.6 yards per target in 2013

I'm not saying this is the greatest season of all time or anything but its playing like DeSean Jackson through 1500 yards. It just doesn't happen that often.

 

There have only been 47 seasons of 1500+ receiving and most of them are the Harrison, Thomas, Hopkins style of 160-190 targets.

Rob Moore had 1583 yards in 1997 on Arizona. He did this on 208 targets at 7.6 per target.

Those are cherry picked stats on a 5-11 team...

[SkippyX]

On 11/18/2021 at 8:24 PM, BlaqOptic said:

Those are cherry picked stats on a 5-11 team...

I pointed to 1 season that was not a "pro bowl season" and showed that it clearly was on that level if not better.

Its only happened 4 times in history AFAIK.

 

Calvin Johnson is not a HoF wide receiver if you take off the 4 seasons the Lions were a combined 12-52

They were 4-12 in his 122 catch 1964 yard season. If you are here to invalidate that season then you might be the first to ever do so AFAIK.

On the 0-16 team he had 1331 yards and 12 TDs (of 18 team receiving TDs). No other Lion had 2 or more receiving TDs. You think that diminishes those stats?

Have you got your own website that has the actual stats that are real for teams that win at least 7 games?

We can't count all those illegal stats!

 

[SkippyX]

Evans is 3 for 3 in finding the end zone since this thread was started.

That's his 4th 10+ TD season and he's on his way to 1000+ yard season #8 in year 8.

10k yards and 75 TDs before age 30 is looking pretty good right now.

Larry Fitzgerald was at 10.413 yards and 77 TDs before age 30.

Fitz has 5 seasons of 10+ TDs and 9 seasons of 1000+

 

Underrating Mike Evans is overrated.

 

[Jakuvious]

1 hour ago, SkippyX said:

I pointed to 1 season that was not a "pro bowl season" and showed that it clearly was on that level if not better.

Its only happened 4 times in history AFAIK.

 

Calvin Johnson is not a HoF wide receiver if you take off the 4 seasons the Lions were a combined 12-52

They were 4-12 in his 122 catch 1964 yard season. If you are here to invalidate that season then you might be the first to ever do so AFAIK.

On the 0-16 team he had 1331 yards and 12 TDs (of 18 team receiving TDs). No other Lion had 2 or more receiving TDs. You think that diminishes those stats?

Have you got your own website that has the actual stats that are real for teams that win at least 7 games?

We can't count all those illegal stats!

 

Mike Evans did make the pro-bowl that season, though. He wasn't first team all-pro because there were guys that had better years than him. Hopkins and Hill were close in yards but gapped him in TDs. Jones had the same TDs but more yards. But Evans did make the pro-bowl that year.

The reason no one else really has that statline that Evans did in 08 is because it's just very specific. That high of YPA means you had to basically be an intermediate to deep threat all season, and nothing else. You're not going to get 18 YPC if you're also running slants, crossers, and screens. Your route tree has to primarily be posts, fades, and gos if you're going to keep that YPC and YPT. It's a 1970s kind of route tree's YPC. But that was the year the Bucs ran the YOLO offense with Fitzpatrick and Winston just chucking it deep all day. His ADOT was almost 16 yards, which is insane. He was almost all yards before catch that year as a result. The only player that averaged more yards before catch that year was his teammate, DeSean Jackson. It was a very boom/bust way they used him and that receiving corp. The result was 26 20+ yard catches, 8 TDs, but then 7 drops, 2 fumbles, and 8 INTs on passes thrown his way. There were other receivers that had more consistent and well-rounded seasons that year.