lark25 Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 Hendrickson showing out as a top 10 edge. Davenport is a very good #2 edge rusher or low end #1. Saints FO gave him more opportunities because they invested more there. Obviously if your rd 1 lineman doesn't deliver youre in more trouble than a 3rd rounder. Don't think Davenport is bad but still looks a borderline bust considering where drafted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 5 hours ago, lark25 said: Hendrickson showing out as a top 10 edge. Davenport is a very good #2 edge rusher or low end #1. Saints FO gave him more opportunities because they invested more there. Obviously if your rd 1 lineman doesn't deliver youre in more trouble than a 3rd rounder. Don't think Davenport is bad but still looks a borderline bust considering where drafted. Anyone who has seen Davenport over the past few years knows that he’s a very good #1 DE when he’s on the field. Availability is the only question. He’s an absolute game wrecker against both the pass and run when he plays. I saw lots of Hendrickson last year on the Saints…great player but Davenport is better. But you can’t help the club in the tub. It’s tough for me to label him a bust in the traditional sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted December 29, 2021 Author Share Posted December 29, 2021 I agree that Davenport isn't a bust considering when he has been on the field he has been playing very well this year for us. He just needs to stay healthy (obviously no guarantee given his history) going forward and he will be a very good DE for us. That said, he just isn't better than Hendrickson. He may be a more well rounded player that is better against the run, but Hendrickson is undoubtedly a better pass rusher. Given that Hendrickson is consistently dominant rushing the passer and isn't injury prone, I see no argument for Davenport being "better" than Hendrickson at this time even if he is better against the run. Hendrickson this season alone may finish with more sacks than Davenport has had in his past 3 seasons. If we compare on a per game basis for sacks, hurries, QB hits, and pressures for just this season (Davenport and Hendrickson's best season to date), Hendrickson has been better in each category. Davenport (9 games played) -5 Hurries (.56 per game) -5 QB Knocked Down (.56 per game) -18 Pressures (2 per game) -7.5 Sacks (.83 per game) Hendrickson (15 games played) -15 Hurries (1 per game) -12 QB Knocked Down (.8 per game) -42 Pressures (2.8 per game) -14 Sacks (.93 per game) Not only has Hendrickson been better, but he also has a maintained this consistent high level of play with a much larger sample size in comparison to Davenport when factoring in him playing 15 games this season compared to Davenport's 9 games. Hendrickson also put up a dominant pass rushing season last year when Davenport hardly played. There's also another stat out there I saw from a few weeks back that stated Hendrickson led the league in pressures that led to turnovers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted December 29, 2021 Share Posted December 29, 2021 I value consistency more than sporadic highs and missing four games at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, tyler735 said: I agree that Davenport isn't a bust considering when he has been on the field he has been playing very well this year for us. He just needs to stay healthy (obviously no guarantee given his history) going forward and he will be a very good DE for us. That said, he just isn't better than Hendrickson. He may be a more well rounded player that is better against the run, but Hendrickson is undoubtedly a better pass rusher. Given that Hendrickson is consistently dominant rushing the passer and isn't injury prone, I see no argument for Davenport being "better" than Hendrickson at this time even if he is better against the run. Hendrickson this season alone may finish with more sacks than Davenport has had in his past 3 seasons. If we compare on a per game basis for sacks, hurries, QB hits, and pressures for just this season (Davenport and Hendrickson's best season to date), Hendrickson has been better in each category. Davenport (9 games played) -5 Hurries (.56 per game) -5 QB Knocked Down (.56 per game) -18 Pressures (2 per game) -7.5 Sacks (.83 per game) Hendrickson (15 games played) -15 Hurries (1 per game) -12 QB Knocked Down (.8 per game) -42 Pressures (2.8 per game) -14 Sacks (.93 per game) Not only has Hendrickson been better, but he also has a maintained this consistent high level of play with a much larger sample size in comparison to Davenport when factoring in him playing 15 games this season compared to Davenport's 9 games. Hendrickson also put up a dominant pass rushing season last year when Davenport hardly played. There's also another stat out there I saw from a few weeks back that stated Hendrickson led the league in pressures that led to turnovers. I don’t think that there is any question that Davenport is more talented. That’s what I was going at. I’m not convinced there there are many DEs more talented in the league than Davenport. The Saints are a run first defense…that’s their focus. I don’t doubt that Davenport would be a league leader in pass rush/game categories if he was allowed to. But yeah…it’s the availability. If he plays for 16-18 games I’m pretty sure he’s an all-pro talent. But he hasn’t been able to stay in the field. Edited December 30, 2021 by sammymvpknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 11 hours ago, sammymvpknight said: I don’t think that there is any question that Davenport is more talented. That’s what I was going at. I’m not convinced there there are many DEs more talented in the league than Davenport. The Saints are a run first defense…that’s their focus. I don’t doubt that Davenport would be a league leader in pass rush/game categories if he was allowed to. But yeah…it’s the availability. If he plays for 16-18 games I’m pretty sure he’s an all-pro talent. But he hasn’t been able to stay in the field. I would certainly question that as Hendrickson also keeps getting better each season. Hendrickson has nearly the exact same athletic profile as Davenport and both were considered "raw" coming into the league. Difference being Hendrickson has shown he can consistently play at a very high level. If Hendrickson finishes the season with a couple more quality games, he may very well get a 1st or 2nd team All Pro with the year he is having, which would essentially for Davenport be our "perfect scenario" if he lives up to his full potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Hendrickson, and it isn't really close. He's a better athlete (one of the few guys in the last 10 years to test as well as Demarcus Ware) and has better instincts against the run. He's a damn good pass rusher. I think as pass rushers, they would be close if Davenport was ever healthy, but Hendrickson can carry a pass rush. Davenport is a complementary guy right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 13 minutes ago, tyler735 said: I would certainly question that as Hendrickson also keeps getting better each season. Hendrickson has nearly the exact same athletic profile as Davenport and both were considered "raw" coming into the league. Difference being Hendrickson has shown he can consistently play at a very high level. If Hendrickson finishes the season with a couple more quality games, he may very well get a 1st or 2nd team All Pro with the year he is having, which would essentially for Davenport be our "perfect scenario" if he lives up to his full potential. I'd still take Hendrickson because he's demonstrated that he can stay healthy. Davenport is the better athlete...Hendrickson is a very good athlete, but Davenport is a freak athletically. He's bigger, longer, faster, and stronger. Right now Hendrickson is more polished as a pass rusher but Davenport has progressed significantly and is a few years younger. Davenport is stronger against the run. If you could guarantee me that Davenport would stay healthy for 16-17 games next year, I strongly believe that he's an all-pro player. Hendrickson's ceiling is obviously really high, but I still think that Davenport's is higher considering that he has the same pass rush upside and is better against the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, scar988 said: Hendrickson, and it isn't really close. He's a better athlete (one of the few guys in the last 10 years to test as well as Demarcus Ware) and has better instincts against the run. He's a damn good pass rusher. I think as pass rushers, they would be close if Davenport was ever healthy, but Hendrickson can carry a pass rush. Davenport is a complementary guy right now. Trey Hendrickson is NOT a better athlete than Marcus Davenport. There are very few guys on the DL in the entire league that are as athletic as Davenport. He's also not as good against the run...Davenport has been better as a Saint in that regard...so unless Hendrickson improved substantially this year as a Bengal...he's not. PFF tends to think that Davenport is a better run defender this year...which would match what I saw during both of their time as Saints players. I love Hendrickson...obviously an elite player. But there is no question that Davenport has that type of ceiling...and likely would be at the ceiling if it wasn't for the injuries. I'm very skeptical that he'll ever be a really healthy game-in game-out type of player...that's his problem. Edited December 30, 2021 by sammymvpknight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said: I'd still take Hendrickson because he's demonstrated that he can stay healthy. Davenport is the better athlete...Hendrickson is a very good athlete, but Davenport is a freak athletically. He's bigger, longer, faster, and stronger. Right now Hendrickson is more polished as a pass rusher but Davenport has progressed significantly and is a few years younger. Davenport is stronger against the run. If you could guarantee me that Davenport would stay healthy for 16-17 games next year, I strongly believe that he's an all-pro player. Hendrickson's ceiling is obviously really high, but I still think that Davenport's is higher considering that he has the same pass rush upside and is better against the run. They are pretty evenly matched athletically and you'd truly be splitting hairs to say otherwise. Both are excellent athletes, but for some reason Hendrickson never really gets as much credit in this area (not singling you out here, just something I've noticed in regards to Hendrickson over the years). These were their combine numbers coming into the league: Trey Hendrickson- 6'4" 266lbs 10 yard split- 1.59 seconds 20 yard split- 2.68 seconds 40 yard- 4.65 seconds Vertical- 33.5 inches Broad Jump- 10'2" Short Shuttle- 4.2 seconds 3 Cone- 7.03 seconds Marcus Davenport- 6'6" 264lbs 10 yard split- 1.62 seconds 20 yard split- 2.67 seconds 40 yard- 4.58 seconds Vertical- 33.5 inches Broad Jump- 10'4" Short Shuttle- 4.41 seconds 3 Cone- 7.2 seconds Neither really has an overall advantage as they are close in several categories. I'd love for you to be right that Davenport has as much potential as a pass rusher as Hendrickson, but I just don't see it at this point with what I've seen from both of them this season and in past seasons. I do think Davenport can be a great player for us though if he can stay healthy. Edited December 30, 2021 by tyler735 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 30, 2021 Share Posted December 30, 2021 Just now, tyler735 said: They are pretty evenly matched athletically and you'd truly be splitting hairs to say otherwise. These were their combine numbers coming into the league: Trey Hendrickson- 6'4" 266lbs 10 yard split- 1.59 seconds 20 yard split- 2.68 seconds 40 yard- 4.65 seconds Vertical- 33.5 inches Broad Jump- 10'2" Short Shuttle- 4.2 seconds 3 Cone- 7.03 seconds Marcus Davenport- 6'6" 264lbs 10 yard split- 1.62 seconds 20 yard split- 2.67 seconds 40 yard- 4.58 seconds Vertical- 33.5 inches Broad Jump- 10'4" Short Shuttle- 4.41 seconds 3 Cone- 7.2 seconds Neither really has an overall advantage as they are close in several categories. I'd love for you to be right that Davenport has as much potential as a pass rusher as Hendrickson, but I just don't see it at this point with what I've seen from both of them this season. Do you think that Davenport is 264 lb now? If I had to guess...he's about 290 lb now and looks every bit as explosive as he was as a rookie. He looks like Mario Williams out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted December 30, 2021 Author Share Posted December 30, 2021 6 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said: Do you think that Davenport is 264 lb now? If I had to guess...he's about 290 lb now and looks every bit as explosive as he was as a rookie. He looks like Mario Williams out there. Just going off the data I have. What I do know is that coming into the league they were very similar athletically. Recent articles have stated both have added weight since coming into the league. How that has effected their explosiveness (if at all) is anyone's guess. Watching both on film shows both are excellent athletes. Both have shown they can win with pure strength running through an OL or with pure explosiveness around the edge. Difference being Hendrickson seems to be more advanced with his technique. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 (edited) A couple fun meaningless fact: T-Rex is in the bottom 5% for arm length, his nickname isn’t just a play on his real name. He was also once called “the easiest guy to block up there” by Bruce Arians. Lol. —— Henny doesn’t seem to have the bend and freakish body manipulation to make certain plays Davenport can. A reason Davenport is such a good run defender (and has been since his rookie season) is cause he has a knack of making the tackle without having to disengage his blocker. He sticks his mitt out there like “Go! Go! Gadget-arm!” and can clamp down on a RB that thought he had a good block to run behind. That said, that’s the only edge I’d give Davenport right now…. that he’s a little more “prototypical” and a better run defender. He’s a good pass rusher but not great, and he’s always hurt. Obviously Hendrickson is the better player. The Saints have quietly been churning out solid DL players for a while now, and Saints fans have been touting a Ryan Neilsen as the next hot DC candidate recently. The Saints promoted him up to assistant HC this year, likely to make any potential DC offers less appealing. Hendrickson is probably the best example of Nielson’s coaching, but there are lots of other “solid” players we’ve had, lots of them we got as scraps. He’s the type of DL coach where even when you’re depleted with injuries or Covid you know the guys he’s putting out there are going to be playing to the best of their abilities. I was pleasantly surprised by Hendricksons development as a round 3 pick, but I had my doubts about him being paid like he was… but he’s earned every penny. With the Saints he had great numbers but consistently made sacks on his 2nd and 3rd move towards the QB. I wasn’t sure how he would do on a defense that wasn’t already great across the board like the Saints was or when he took over the role as “the” pass rusher. Obviously people doubting him has gotten him right where he is now, so I’ll keep it up! Edited December 31, 2021 by Dome 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 (edited) The greatest ability is availability On 12/28/2021 at 7:46 PM, SmittyBacall said: The majority of Cincinnati fans were super bummed letting Carl Lawson walk and "settling" for Hendrickson in FA. That sentiment has completely vanished. Hendrickson has been on fire. I was never one of those. Lawson generated tons of "pressures" but most of the time couldn't finish. Being able to finish a play off is an underrated aspect of the pass rush in my opinion. A pressure still might results in a 70 yard touchdown for the other team. A sack is a finished negative play that wrecks the opposing offense's drive in a lot of cases. Edited January 3, 2022 by THE DUKE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 Right now its Hendrickson, but I still think Davenport has potential to be better than him in the future.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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