Bears 2022 Wide Receiver Watch

[Heinz D.]

36 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

$27 million in dead cap in 2022...$14.6 million in 2023...a trade of Mack isn't happening.

Ahh, I was off by a year. Apologies all around.

Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, though. Teams have to pay for mistakes by eating dead money. 

27 minutes ago, soulman said:

Mack should retire as a Bears.  Given his contract there is no way we'll ever get value for him vs the dead cap we'd eat.  His last restructure was like a nail in his cleats nailing him to the Bears roster forevermore.  Besides, the guy is one of the top ten best defenders in the NFL.

I already stated that I love Mack. I was bummed when I read he needed foot surgery, and I'd be happy if he retired a Bear.

But, if you can get a good return for him, you do it. Period. 

That's where the team is at, right now. Pace has just made all sorts of mistakes...and the kind of mistakes that aren't at all easy to crawl out from under. 

If trading Mack meant that increased the chances of the Bears getting a good WR, and/or a good CB, then you don't do that, no matter what? That's not just short-sighted, that's approaching the situation with blinders on.

And the whole "HOF pass rusher" argument (which I realize that you didn't make there, @soulman) is ridiculous. The last three seasons have totally plateaued Mack's career, historically speaking. At this point, it would take an incredible comeback for him even to be considered for the HOF--on ANY ballot. 

[Madmike90]

4 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Ahh, I was off by a year. Apologies all around.

Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, though. Teams have to pay for mistakes by eating dead money. 

I already stated that I love Mack. I was bummed when I read he needed foot surgery, and I'd be happy if he retired a Bear.

But, if you can get a good return for him, you do it. Period. 

That's where the team is at, right now. Pace has just made all sorts of mistakes...and the kind of mistakes that aren't at all easy to crawl out from under. 

If trading Mack meant that increased the chances of the Bears getting a good WR, and/or a good CB, then you don't do that, no matter what? That's not just short-sighted, that's approaching the situation with blinders on.

And the whole "HOF pass rusher" argument (which I realize that you didn't make there, @soulman) is ridiculous. The last three seasons have totally plateaued Mack's career, historically speaking. At this point, it would take an incredible comeback for him even to be considered for the HOF--on ANY ballot. 

Mack wasn't a mistake and if you think Mack isn't going to the hall of fame your crazy man haha

[soulman]

2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I already stated that I love Mack. I was bummed when I read he needed foot surgery, and I'd be happy if he retired a Bear.

But, if you can get a good return for him, you do it. Period. 

That's where the team is at, right now. Pace has just made all sorts of mistakes...and the kind of mistakes that aren't at all easy to crawl out from under. 

If trading Mack meant that increased the chances of the Bears getting a good WR, and/or a good CB, then you don't do that, no matter what? That's not just short-sighted, that's approaching the situation with blinders on.

And the whole "HOF pass rusher" argument (which I realize that you didn't make there, @soulman) is ridiculous. The last three seasons have totally plateaued Mack's career, historically speaking. At this point, it would take an incredible comeback for him even to be considered for the HOF--on ANY ballot. 

But....but.....but your are not gonna get a trade off that's worth anywhere near as much as Mack is to this defense.  And he's not just a HOF edge rusher either.  He's a future HOF everything.

Stop worrying about the cap for cryin' out loud.  There are others who can be replaced far more easily than Kahlil Mack.

[Heinz D.]

2 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Mack wasn't a mistake and if you think Mack isn't going to the hall of fame your crazy man haha

Trading for Mack was done with the #Conviction that Mitchell Trubisky was a franchise quarterback. The move was absolutely a mistake, by any definition of the term.

And, if Mack's career continues as it has been going as of late, he won't be getting into the HOF, no. 

2 minutes ago, soulman said:

But....but.....but your are not gonna get a trade off that's worth anywhere near as much as Mack is to this defense.  And he's not just a HOF edge rusher either.  He's a future HOF everything.

Stop worrying about the cap for cryin' out loud.  There are others who can be replaced far more easily than Kahlil Mack.

Did you notice Trevis Gipson today? The guy's a stud. Mack was gone, Vildor flat-out stunk, and the defense still played the best they had in over a month. Horrible lapses, and all. 

And...I'm not worried about the cap, as my push to trade Mack (if possible/reasonable) attests. 

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Trading for Mack was done with the #Conviction that Mitchell Trubisky was a franchise quarterback. The move was absolutely a mistake, by any definition of the term.

And, if Mack's career continues as it has been going as of late, he won't be getting into the HOF, no.

I would strongly disagree on both points.

[Heinz D.]

Just now, Madmike90 said:

I would strongly disagree on both points.

And that's fine.

Tell me this, though--what has that massive trade actually brought to the franchise? 

Are we contenders right now? Have we actually been contenders at any time since the trade was made?

I sure thought we were at one point--but I mistakenly figured Haywire Mitch was merely Rookie/Young Quarterback Growing Pains Mitch. And boy, was I wrong about that. 

[Madmike90]

2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

And that's fine.

Tell me this, though--what has that massive trade actually brought to the franchise? 

Are we contenders right now? Have we actually been contenders at any time since the trade was made?

I sure thought we were at one point--but I mistakenly figured Haywire Mitch was merely Rookie/Young Quarterback Growing Pains Mitch. And boy, was I wrong about that. 

It's gave us a defensive playmaker who does far more for this team than the stat sheet suggests by having every offensive coordinator game plan for him...have we been successful? No...is that because of Mack? Absolutely not...it's down to a frankly terrible coaching staff who are holding back the team.

[Heinz D.]

3 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

It's gave us a defensive playmaker who does far more for this team than the stat sheet suggests by having every offensive coordinator game plan for him...have we been successful? No...is that because of Mack? Absolutely not...it's down to a frankly terrible coaching staff who are holding back the team.

Well, certainly can't argue with that. The staff (Nagy and Desai, mostly) lost that game today.

But Pace isn't without culpability in this whole mess. Having a great draft this year doesn't let him off the hook. 

Let's hope the best case scenario unfolds, and Mack returns to form, and the rebuild takes another giant step forward next year. 

[soulman]

37 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Did you notice Trevis Gipson today? The guy's a stud. Mack was gone,

Yup, good pick.  But he's still not Kahlil Mack.

You should watch more game vids to see all of what Mack does that impacts others as well if only because every team know he must be contained at all cost or he will wreck you and your QB.

And with this I am done debating a trade of Kahlil Mack.  I vote NO.

[Heinz D.]

4 minutes ago, soulman said:

You should watch more game vids to see all of what Mack does that impacts others as well if only because every team know he must be contained at all cost or he will wreck you and your QB.

I certainly understand your point. I've already stated that I love Mack. And was truly bummed when I read he needed foot surgery.

I don't know what else I can say. Any other way I can summarize what I think a healthy Mack brings to the field. 

I seriously don't get the "ride or die with Mack" mentality, though. 

4 minutes ago, soulman said:

And with this I am done debating a trade of Kahlil Mack.  I vote NO.

And that's fine. Also the position the franchise most likely has. 

But, if I'm GM? A first and a fourth would get my attention. 

[soulman]

46 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

I certainly understand your point. I've already stated that I love Mack. And was truly bummed when I read he needed foot surgery.

I don't know what else I can say. Any other way I can summarize what I think a healthy Mack brings to the field. 

I seriously don't get the "ride or die with Mack" mentality, though. 

And that's fine. Also the position the franchise most likely has. 

But, if I'm GM? A first and a fourth would get my attention. 

Good luck getting it GM Heinz.

[Heinz D.]

6 minutes ago, soulman said:

Good luck getting it GM Heinz.

Just an example. The Bears need picks, so probably would settle for less. 

[Sugashane]

4 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

And the whole "HOF pass rusher" argument (which I realize that you didn't make there, @soulman) is ridiculous. The last three seasons have totally plateaued Mack's career, historically speaking. At this point, it would take an incredible comeback for him even to be considered for the HOF--on ANY ballot. 

Not even close to accurate IMO. 3 time All Pro, made like 6 straight Pro Bowls, made the All Decade Team, etc. If he retired right now he'd at least be on the ballot.

 

Its interesting to note Peters is an absolute lock for the HOF - and the only one on the team ATM that has no chance of not getting the jacket. Being likely his last season unless we bring him back I wonder if he will sign a one day contract with PHI to retire an Eagle or not. Some NFL players have way too much pride and may hold a grudge. Him not retiring an Eagle would be like Peanut retiring a Panther - just weird.

[soulman]

11 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

Just an example. The Bears need picks, so probably would settle for less. 

You value Mack's contributions far too little I'm afraid.  Pass rushing is not the only thing he does well.  The guy is a pure football stud.

[beardown3231]

On 11/19/2021 at 3:44 PM, Madmike90 said:

Good player but that is a lot of money to invest when you have Juedy & Hamler in the wings...looks like Courtland Sutton will be a FA.