2022 Free agency thread

[WindyCity]

25 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

I wouldn't trade him for a 3rd...

Maybe a 3rd and a young player at a position of need but I think his leadership and experience are more valuable than the pick alone.

My guess is they would move him for a 3rd. Adding resources seems to be the name of the game for them.

It’s a lot to give up in a potential pick and cap space for a player who is unlikely to be here when the Bears are really good again.

If your going to go young and cheap on defense, then let’s do it, Quinn’s value will never be higher.

[Madmike90]

Just now, WindyCity said:

My guess is they would move him for a 3rd. Adding resources seems to be the name of the game for them.

It’s a lot to give up in a potential pick and cap space for a player who is unlikely to be here when the Bears are really good again.

If your going to go young and cheap on defense, then let’s do it, Quinn’s value will never be higher.

Again you can't just get rid of everyone who is good if they are a little older or cost more...it sets a terrible precedence and is how you become the Jags...

We must remain competitive even if we aren't winning games

[WindyCity]

6 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Again you can't just get rid of everyone who is good if they are a little older or cost more...it sets a terrible precedence and is how you become the Jags...

We must remain competitive even if we aren't winning games

I think when you trade Mack that is probably the signal that you are open for business on most guys who aren’t in the long term plan.

I think we are likely to keep Quinn because his market won’t be good enough to move him.

But I think the Bears would be okay with Muhammad and Gipson on the edge and a 3rd round pick and the cash in their pocket. 
 

We will see, but I think Mack signalled they are open for business on Quinn as well.

[Madmike90]

6 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

I think when you trade Mack that is probably the signal that you are open for business on most guys who aren’t in the long term plan.

I think we are likely to keep Quinn because his market won’t be good enough to move him.

But I think the Bears would be okay with Muhammad and Gipson on the edge and a 3rd round pick and the cash in their pocket. 
 

We will see, but I think Mack signalled they are open for business on Quinn as well.

I feel it was one or the other...Mack was their first choice to move (as he should have been).

[chisoxguy7]

6 hours ago, WindyCity said:

I really wonder when we get some movement on Nick Foles.

I am not sure if there is a market for him.

At some point we are going to need to cut him and get that 3 million back in the accounts… we can’t let him on the field if he is hurt we owe him the entire amount.

Send him to Pittsburgh and reunite him with Biscuit!

[malagabears]

18 hours ago, WindyCity said:

If we can get a 3rd or more we should move him.

If we want to jump start and draft and development movement we need more picks and more premium picks.

DE is one of the few spots we have depth and a player who might have some value.

Would you do it? It is a hypothetical of Quinn to the Chiefs for pick # 94. Among 5 trades mentioned.

 

 

[WindyCity]

1 minute ago, malagabears said:

Would you do it? It is a hypothetical of Quinn to the Chiefs for pick # 94. Among 5 trades mentioned.

 

 

Yes. If you are going young and cheap then do it. Don’t try and straddle 2 lanes.

We have 2 competent starting DEs if Quinn is gone. 

We need draft capital to jump start the Poles transition.

[Madmike90]

2 hours ago, malagabears said:

Would you do it? It is a hypothetical of Quinn to the Chiefs for pick # 94. Among 5 trades mentioned.

 

 

Nope not worth it.

[Madmike90]

 

 

[AZBearsFan]

2 hours ago, WindyCity said:

Yes. If you are going young and cheap then do it. Don’t try and straddle 2 lanes.

We have 2 competent starting DEs if Quinn is gone. 

We need draft capital to jump start the Poles transition.

The step down from Quinn to Muhammad is a huge step down in ability though. One guy had 19 sacks last year and the other had 11 in the past 3 years combined. This isn’t Mark Anderson as the 3rd DE in 2006 here. Our defense gets markedly worse without Quinn, and as presently constructed assuming we do something as far as a competent CB2 this defense should give you enough to be competitive most weeks in 2022. 

There’s a line to walk here between giving the new GM more draft capital and telling your locker room in April that you’re not terribly worried about being competitive this fall, and to me a late 3rd rounder isn’t nearly enough draft capital to be willing to send that message, especially when a bunch of the guys in there just signed on for 2022 on 1-year deals. You can add a comparable pick trading down about 10 spots in round 2 and not submarine your 2022 defense.

You're always hyper-focused on Fields not getting killed in 2022 and I totally agree with the importance of Fields’ health, but one of the things you can do to limit his exposure to an unnecessary beating in addition to bolstering the OL is to not give up 30+ points a game and have him playing from way behind all season.

Wanna flip Quinn at the deadline if we’re 3-7? I’m totally on board. But I wouldn’t do it now without a premium return. 

[StLunatic88]

14 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

The step down from Quinn to Muhammad is a huge step down in ability though. One guy had 19 sacks last

 

24 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Nope not worth it.

As much as I’ve been with you guys on the offensive side of the line, I think you guys are WAY off on this when it comes to Quinn, and I have to fully align with Windy here. 

Quinn has no greater value to this franchise any longer than as Draft Pick compensation. He’s not in the future plans, he’s not going to make or break our defense, and most importantly, this Scheme (what we have for used so much on for the OL) is not built to emphasize or even take advantage of edge guys.

Not only was Muhammad not asked to do the same as Quinn, but there’s a decent chance that Quinn’s stats greatly suffer this year due to how he is used and his value takes a massive hit.

If we’re talking about only getting a late 5th for him (#150-170) then sure, pass on that for now, that or better will likely be there for you at the trade deadline as long as he doesn’t get hurt of fall off a cliff. 

But a 3rd rounder, a Top 100 pick this year (likely a Top 75 on your board or better) is so much more valuable for the next 4+ seasons than Robert Quinn is for MAYBE one more year. 

[StLunatic88]

30 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

There’s a line to walk here between giving the new GM more draft capital and telling your locker room in April that you’re not terribly worried about being competitive this fall,

Also this is nonsense. These guys are all professionals, they know what is going on. And they are all still going out there trying to win.

You really want to try and argue that a Singular DE, a 32 year old guy who has little to no chance being on the roster in 2023 is going to “break the spirit” of this team if he is traded to gather more immediate capital to spurn this rebuild quicker? Sorry, nope not buying it. Because if that is the case, this team is in a really bad place 

 

Bottom Line, you can’t halfass a rebuild

Edited April 11, 2022 by StLunatic88

[Madmike90]

11 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

 

As much as I’ve been with you guys on the offensive side of the line, I think you guys are WAY off on this when it comes to Quinn, and I have to fully align with Windy here. 

Quinn has no greater value to this franchise any longer than as Draft Pick compensation. He’s not in the future plans, he’s not going to make or break our defense, and most importantly, this Scheme (what we have for used so much on for the OL) is not built to emphasize or even take advantage of edge guys.

Not only was Muhammad not asked to do the same as Quinn, but there’s a decent chance that Quinn’s stats greatly suffer this year due to how he is used and his value takes a massive hit.

If we’re talking about only getting a late 5th for him (#150-170) then sure, pass on that for now, that or better will likely be there for you at the trade deadline as long as he doesn’t get hurt of fall off a cliff. 

But a 3rd rounder, a Top 100 pick this year (likely a Top 75 on your board or better) is so much more valuable for the next 4+ seasons than Robert Quinn is for MAYBE one more year. 

This is where the thinking has to change...you can't just think of the future...honestly teams like the Jags have been thinking of the future for a decade...it's easy to think just sell sell sell this year and use that to build a young kick *** team but how many teams has it worked for? You need to have a balance between being competitive and teaching these young guys how to become good veterans and looking ahead to the future...we did that by trading Mack...you take that a step too far by trading Quinn who as an outside pass rusher plays a position that is simply too important to go without...if this was a 32 year old Roquan Smith and we could get a 3rd in this type of year for him then sure...but not a pass rusher...he brings way more value to us than a 3rd round pick would.

[AZBearsFan]

31 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Also this is nonsense. These guys are all professionals, they know what is going on. And they are all still going out there trying to win.

You really want to try and argue that a Singular DE, a 32 year old guy who has little to no chance being on the roster in 2023 is going to “break the spirit” of this team if he is traded to gather more immediate capital to spurn this rebuild quicker? Sorry, nope not buying it. Because if that is the case, this team is in a really bad place 

 

Bottom Line, you can’t halfass a rebuild

My comment was meant more in line with what I talked about in the last paragraph about not giving up 30+ a game, with the stuff about guys on 1-year deals thing more of an add-on consideration. I didn’t intend it solely in a “break their spirit” way. Admittedly it didn’t read so much that way when I looked back at it. My bad. I just don’t want Fields going out thinking he has to score 30 every week to win games. I think that’d be the wrong approach. I don’t want him feeling like he has to play hero ball all the time to the extent that it’s reasonably avoidable. A lot of the mistakes we saw last year (thinking specifically about 10+ yard sacks on wild scrambles) were when he was trying to do way too much. He should get better with that stuff just by maturing as a player, but I think we can help him along with a complementary defense too.

I disagree about the importance of DEs in this scheme. Its design primarily is to get pressure from the front 4. I find it incredibly hard to believe that a starting DE in a 4-3 scheme wasn’t asked to rush the passer, a lot. Muhammad played 800 snaps on defense last year. IND thought enough of the need for an effective pass rush from DE for this scheme to pick Kwity Paye 21st overall last year. I also don’t think a scheme change really hurts Quinn on the field. He was in the same scheme in Dallas in 2019 under Marinelli and had 11.5 sacks in 14 games. It was his play in this scheme that got him the massive contract he has here now. 

You’re right that Quinn isn’t a piece of the long term future here, but IMO that doesn’t mean he doesn’t add value to the present roster even during a rebuild. I also don’t think a late 3rd rounder as proposed is likely to drastically alter the timeline of the rebuild. Like I said in my last post - I’m not opposed to the idea of a trade - I just think for it has to be for enough draft capital, and for me the proposed 3rd rounder, with the draft board sight unseen, isn’t enough. I took the proposed hypothetical to mean, “Would you make this trade today?” specifically. That could change for me on draft day depending on what’s there at pick 94 and what we’ve already added. Knowing more about what specifically I’d be using the pick for could certainly swing things the other way for me. 

[soulman]

If as some would say Quinn's value will never be higher why should Poles accept a bottom of the pile 3rd round pick for a DE whose proven he's still a top NFL Edge Rusher?

There have been quite a few former NFL pass rushers who've remained effective long after they turned 30 years of age so to say Quinn isn't the future may not be wholly accurate.

Poles should tell anyone whose interested to put a 2nd round pick on the table and he'll talk. If it takes a little something more to balance it out offer a late round 2023 pick along with Quinn.