LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Teams in other sports, namely basketball, have tanked for years and the young talent and roster flexibility it leads to allows teams to rebuild and compete. Sashi isn't out here doing something that's never been done, it's just never been done in football. To think that it can't work would mean you essentially don't believe the same thing that has changed the entire way two other major N. American sports leagues operate will work in football. Hue has absolutely been put in a position to fail, it's why I don't hold it against him. But I also don't think sucking intentionally for a couple years is terrible either if you get your organizations foundation in place. If we pass on a qb again, or if th draft picks are all Butch Davis level bad, by all means they should be canned, but we're in absolutely no position to evaluate those picks yet. For Christ sake Kizer, Peppers, Garrett, Njoku are all 4 years removed from HIGH SCHOOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 5 minutes ago, dawgattack said: I think the nerds would get shown the door long before Hue mainly because it's easier PR wise for Jimmy H. Fire the nerds and the football old boys club won't care....nobody will come to the nerds defense. Fire Hue and everyone will be crucifying the "same old Browns" whether it is fair or not. Having said this, I hope both Hue and the nerds are here for longer. I do wish Hue would stop pointing fingers at the nerds. It was Hue who felt the earth move under RG3 and who told us to trust him on the Kessler selection. Pointing fingers is his MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 If fingers need pointed, Hue and Sashi should stand side by side pointing directly at the ring leader of this circus, Jimmy Haslam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, dawgattack said: I think the nerds would get shown the door long before Hue mainly because it's easier PR wise for Jimmy H. Fire the nerds and the football old boys club won't care....nobody will come to the nerds defense. Fire Hue and everyone will be crucifying the "same old Browns" whether it is fair or not. Having said this, I hope both Hue and the nerds are here for longer. I do wish Hue would stop pointing fingers at the nerds. It was Hue who felt the earth move under RG3 and who told us to trust him on the Kessler selection. I think you keep them both and tell the nerds 'Try and win this year. Don't mortage the future but aim for 8+ wins, it should be doable' and see what they do. I think they felt they could go 0-16, 2-14, 4-12, 6-10, 10-6 in their first 5 years with no fire they way they have been moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 The HC is always the first to go, but Haslam could possibly let them both go if he can manage to hire Peyton. After completely screwing up the McCarron trade, the FO has shown just how incompetent they are. The rest of the NFL is having a huge laugh at just how bad the Brown's are run, we are the laughing stock of the NFL and it is only going to get worse, because incompetence cannot be correct too easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, roger murdock said: I think you keep them both and tell the nerds 'Try and win this year. Don't mortage the future but aim for 8+ wins, it should be doable' and see what they do. I think they felt they could go 0-16, 2-14, 4-12, 6-10, 10-6 in their first 5 years with no fire they way they have been moving. If that 10-6 in year 5 was sustained, I wouldn't even care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Teams in other sports, namely basketball, have tanked for years and the young talent and roster flexibility it leads to allows teams to rebuild and compete. Sashi isn't out here doing something that's never been done, it's just never been done in football. To think that it can't work would mean you essentially don't believe the same thing that has changed the entire way two other major N. American sports leagues operate will work in football. Quote Your right on one count, it has never been done this way in football, because in football, you either get a franchise QB or any plan is doomed to failure. So far, they have had 2 shots at a franchise QB's, Wentz and Watson and were too stupid to pull the trigger and must now pray, they get it right in the 2018 draft or we are completely sunk for possibly a decade. 10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Hue has absolutely been put in a position to fail, it's why I don't hold it against him. But I also don't think sucking intentionally for a couple years is terrible either if you get your organizations foundation in place. Quote If there had been no possible franchise QB's available to be drafted by the Brown's then waiting till one was, would be a reasonable plan, but when you pass on one who looks to be on his way to possibly be the MVP of the NFL in Wentz and then pass as well on Watson, you clearly show, you do not have a clue on how to rebuild a franchise or assess talent and should be replaced before you completely screw it up and waste all the extra picks we now possess. If we pass on a qb again, or if th draft picks are all Butch Davis level bad, by all means they should be canned, but we're in absolutely no position to evaluate those picks yet. For Christ sake Kizer, Peppers, Garrett, Njoku are all 4 years removed from HIGH SCHOOL. Quote Even if they draft a QB with their #1 overall pick in the 2018 draft, who is to say, he will turn out to be a solid franchise QB. They did not see the talent Wentz or Watson had and you want to trust them with guessing which QB from the 2018 draft will turn out to be the best. Every NFL team has to pass judgement on 3 or 4 year prospects removed from high school, that is what they are paid for. Philly's FO passed judgement on Wentz when they made the trade, Houston passed judgement when they drafted Watson and you want to trust these incompetents to make another judgement call??? After all, Garrett was a no brainer, that says nothing about their abilities to assess talent, Kizer is a complete joke as a starting NFL QB and Peppers and Njoku are likely decent picks, but I do not know for sure that they will be stars or just another starter. They cannot even make a trade properly, just how bad does it have to get, before you see them for what they are. Non football people who think metrics can solve anything and you do not need the ability to assess talent to be a competent NFL GM, because clearly, they have shown with Wentz, Watson and Kizer, that their reliance on metrics alone, does not work in any sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 17 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said: ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamcanadian Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 34 minutes ago, roger murdock said: I think you keep them both and tell the nerds 'Try and win this year. Don't mortage the future but aim for 8+ wins, it should be doable' and see what they do. I think they felt they could go 0-16, 2-14, 4-12, 6-10, 10-6 in their first 5 years with no fire they way they have been moving. Quote This would look OK if it matched the standards for a NFL rebuild, but it does not come close and just shows how desperate Cleveland fans are, that they will accept such a rotten plan. NFL teams find a franchise QB, then they have a record in the neighbourhood of 2-4 wins in his rookie year and if the HC they hired is decent, he will produce a 7 to 9 win season in year 2 and be a serious contender by year 3. Almost every rebuilding team that found a solid franchise QB and had a decent HC, have followed this pattern since pro football has been played. 5 year plans are for FO's that will never get the job done. First, they are so incompetent that they will hire mediocre HC's and then they will pass on possible solid franchise QB's in the draft, and to put it simply, the franchise will never see the light of day as long as they run the ship. The most serious problem with giving them one more season to prove their incompetence, is simple, all the draft assets we now possess, will turn out to produce practically nothing, since they are proven mediocre drafters and the franchise could easily sink even further into the abyss for another decade. Detroit under Matt Millen, tried this route and they wasted around 10years just to become somewhat competitive under another GM. I mean, what has our FO accomplished so far, possibly and very likely, a 1-31 record, a NFL record for incompetence and we should give them one more shot to possibly, completely waste all the draft assets we possess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Teams in other sports, namely basketball, have tanked for years and the young talent and roster flexibility it leads to allows teams to rebuild and compete. Sashi isn't out here doing something that's never been done, it's just never been done in football. To think that it can't work would mean you essentially don't believe the same thing that has changed the entire way two other major N. American sports leagues operate will work in football. Hue has absolutely been put in a position to fail, it's why I don't hold it against him. But I also don't think sucking intentionally for a couple years is terrible either if you get your organizations foundation in place. If we pass on a qb again, or if th draft picks are all Butch Davis level bad, by all means they should be canned, but we're in absolutely no position to evaluate those picks yet. For Christ sake Kizer, Peppers, Garrett, Njoku are all 4 years removed from HIGH SCHOOL. We've had this conversation before I think so this a bit redundant but I just don't see how basketball team building and football team building can be approached the same way. There's too many reasons for this to really name. Big ones would be that player talent impacts the game more in basketball, no week by week preparation for games, less players on the roster, max contract players that you'd specifically need loads of free cap to sign, the game is less dependent on strategy and study.... There's a lot of reasons why it's appealing for the 76ers to amass draft picks and avoid signing expensive free agents that just don't apply in the same way to the Browns. We lack players that know how to be professionals, know what it takes to win football games, who are going to continue to buy in what our coaching staff is doing despite losing, guys you can rely on to simply not make a lot of mistakes....and in turn those guys can show the younger players how to also do that. Throw every cliche there is about that stuff out there "culture" and "identity" of a football team....there's a reason why that cliche exists. I'm not sure that sort of intangible forms from a bunch of youth coming together over years, I think it might have to be there and get passed down. Edit: And that's why I don't want to see Hue go if we fire anybody. Let this FO that left our coaching staff out to dry rot and put the assets we have in competent hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 I mean when it comes to this salary cap stuff it's just kind of ridiculous. Joe Haden's contract was impinging us from doing what? Re-signing Myles Garrett in 5 years? What contract situation do we have coming up on this team that DEMANDS us to cut anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Just now, Rod Johnson said: I mean when it comes to this salary cap stuff it's just kind of ridiculous. Joe Haden's contract was impinging us from doing what? Re-signing Myles Garrett in 5 years? What contract situation do we have coming up on this team that DEMANDS us to cut anybody? Cutting haden allowed us tow owkr the 2019 off season better. We have upgraded by subtraction with Haden. McCourty has replaced him, BBC and jamar Taylor are as good or better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said: Cutting haden allowed us tow owkr the 2019 off season better. We have upgraded by subtraction with Haden. McCourty has replaced him, BBC and jamar Taylor are as good or better. McCourty is hurt, BBC is hurt, Jabrill Peppers (apparently a coverage safety) sucks and is hurt. Blown coverage assignments are the greatest heel of our defense. We have near 0 veteran presence on our team. How can you not see that it's more important than the 2019 off-season? What is happening in 2019 that needs a lot of money thrown at it anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Both of them will be back by our next game and Michael Jordan is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Mind Character said: John Gruden, Urban Meyer, Bill Cowher, and/or Bill Walsh.....DUH Coaching problem solved... 3 hours ago, DizzyDean said: None of which would come here, DUH, so no points for you kind sir. No? I'd bet anything that we can get Bill Walsh...maybe not the other three I mentioned in Gruden, Meyer, and Cowher...but definitely Bill Walsh... Again...coaching problem solved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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