cjfollett Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 Ben clearly has limitations. The big questions are: Does he want to come back? Do the Steelers want him back? And how much would they pay him? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeler Hitman Posted December 16, 2021 Author Share Posted December 16, 2021 20 hours ago, 43M said: Quote I disagree. You have to factor in positional value, needs, scheme fit, and whether or not that piece is the best fit for your current team. I don't feel ANY RB is a good pick early on when you have a laughably bad OLine....among other deficiencies. I just don't believe that you ALWAYS pick and choose here. Example: The Steelers need to retool more than a complete rebuild. There are still a lot of areas that need to be addressed. You don't always get the availability of top talent at some positions. Franchise QB of the future is a need, but 2021 may bot be the year to get that. Hit the other areas that are needed. I know it was nearly 40 years ago, but that is what Noll did 1969-1974. Joe Green, Bradshaw and Blount, Swann, Lambert, Webster and Shell, etc. He believed in building from defense. That thought and refusal to move from that hurt him in 1983 when he passed on Dan Marino because he had Mark Malone and Cliff Stout behind Bradshaw who was in year 14. I am not saying you are wrong as many agree with you, I just have a different feel/take for doing this. I look at Najee as more an upper echelon RB (top 3) than a run in the mill that can be easily replaced. Without him the Steelers rushing attack is in the trash. Even as bad as it is he should get high marks for doing some of what he has done. As Troy Aikman said, "He just saw the greatest three yard run with no blocking ever." He compared it to a Barry Sanders two yard run against the Cowboys. Only a select few players can do that sort of thing. we have that guy and I am not apologizing that the Steelers do. Quote I would. This season is showing why. As talented as Najee may be, he is wasted with us....as any RB would be. Truthfully the issue isn't Najee it is blocking. We had the same issued of no push on the OL going back to Leveon Bell in 2017. To your point, Connor helped the OL with his downhill style, but his violent style caused some injuries and when he didn't have a crack or hole to get through, he is not shift enough to manufacture yardage. Marcus Allen wasn't a fast guy, but man was he hard to get a clean hit on and he could slither and contort into yardage. I cannot say that it is wasted with Najee as he has broken Leveon Bell's rookie record with a much less talented OL that has struggled all year. Imagine what he could do with the Browns, Cowboys, or Patriots offensive line? The thing that some are not looking at is our OL will improve in 2022. I am sure they add some players and Green and Moore are projected to be better in year two. Dotson is back and hopefully fully healthy. Add some depth and perhaps a RT if you are not comfortable with Zach Banner who is hurt more than healthy. We discussed style on here as many of us thought it would be easier to transition into a mauling style with adding a franchise back as opposed to the light footed OL who can move fast rather than move people. Quote This is exactly my point, though. Why would you invest a high pick into a position with a short shelf life when you have, arguably, the worst run blocking line in the NFL? Because it is not set in stone that you have to remain the worst run blocking OL in the NFL. Heck the Browns made the switch last year. After having a bad OL, they got a top tier OL coach and added some road graders. They have a great back in Nick Chubb. With blocking, he had a coming out party and I believe won the rushing title last year or was #2 at worst. Why can't the Steelers do the same with a top tier RB? Quote If you disagree...fair enough....but there is literally nothing you can say that would change my mind in regards to spending a high pick on a RB when you have no OL in front of them. I am not necessarily trying to change your mind because I agree with you in some circumstances. Like I said, if Darrisaw is there or somehow, we got a shot at Penne Sewell or Rashawn Slater (I liked him a lot as well), I go with the franchise LT. Better value and less risk versus reward. LT is 10 -12 years and a RB is 4-5 on the low end and maybe 8 or 9 if fortunate before you decide if the RB juice is worth the squeeze. With no top options as mentioned above, the need, and Najee's draft value, I think he was a wise pick. If Landon Dickerson did not have the health issues, I probably would have taken him there even though he is in IOL. The shelf life of a C is longer and adds more value than a RB(TYPICALLY). I believe/think Najee may be the exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 38 minutes ago, cjfollett said: Ben clearly has limitations. The big questions are: Does he want to come back? Do the Steelers want him back? And how much would they pay him? If he's at the level that he's playing at right now, I'd take him back. I was pretty over Ben through the 1st month, but he's improved a lot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjfollett Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 11 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said: If he's at the level that he's playing at right now, I'd take him back. I was pretty over Ben through the 1st month, but he's improved a lot. But for how much? Are you paying him $20 - $30M? Would he accept anything less for another year? Ben was gawd awful at times this season. He can't move like he used to do to buy time, and he cannot make all the throws that he used to make. If the Steelers truly believe this is a SB contending team now, then go all in on Rodgers. Otherwise, take your lumps for a year with Rudolph, and then draft CJ Stroud, Bryce Young, or some other top prospect in 2023. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 2 hours ago, cjfollett said: Ben clearly has limitations. The big questions are: Does he want to come back? Do the Steelers want him back? And how much would they pay him? Ben counts 10 mill against cap next year and $5 mill in 2023 thanks to the voidable years they added on....I’m not sure how a new contract would alter this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjfollett Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, AFF said: Ben counts 10 mill against cap next year and $5 mill in 2023 thanks to the voidable years they added on....I’m not sure how a new contract would alter this. I am not sure how that works. According to this, Ben is not getting a salary from the Steelers next season even though he counts $10M in dead cap. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/ben-roethlisberger-3595/ What happens if he signs another 1 year deal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 31 minutes ago, cjfollett said: I am not sure how that works. According to this, Ben is not getting a salary from the Steelers next season even though he counts $10M in dead cap. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/ben-roethlisberger-3595/ What happens if he signs another 1 year deal? It adds on. His, Jujus, and Ebrons deals have a league min base salary tied to it to spread out the gtd money that was shifted around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjfollett Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 16 minutes ago, warfelg said: It adds on. His, Jujus, and Ebrons deals have a league min base salary tied to it to spread out the gtd money that was shifted around. So more dead cap money in the future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 39 minutes ago, cjfollett said: So more dead cap money in the future? No it will hit in the year it is unless they do it as an extension and restructure to push money into more future years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warfelg Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 I’ll post it when I see it but pay attention to Steelers Depot Saturday. Dave is gonna do a cap deep dive to tell us how much cap space there really will be. Expect it to be more like $20 mil than $50mil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 2 hours ago, warfelg said: I’ll post it when I see it but pay attention to Steelers Depot Saturday. Dave is gonna do a cap deep dive to tell us how much cap space there really will be. Expect it to be more like $20 mil than $50mil I feel pretty bad for Dave doing all that work to show an irrelevant number. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 20 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said: Truthfully the issue isn't Najee it is blocking. Not to diminish everything else you posted, but this largely sums up my entire argument, though. I know we dont have the blocking....which is exactly why I think its a waste to invest a huge amount into the RB position. Again, while I didnt like that we picked RB early, I was more okay with it due to how the draft fell. HOWEVER, that does not mean I think it was a smart pick. People keep claiming "If Darrisaw or another linemen fell...", but my argument to that is, the Steelers/Colbert/Tomlin are cowards for constantly sitting on their hands. They constantly WAIT to see if someone falls, and if someone doesnt fall, they reach. Not saying Harris was really a reach, but even if they wanted Darrisaw, they wouldnt have moved up for him. Its like when they wanted Revis and waited for him to drop. Im sure thats happened several times. Steelers have had some nice players fall to them over the years, but when it doesnt happen, we end up with picks like Arite Burns and Terrell Edmunds. That being said, I think the Steelers front office wanted a RB. Many front office, likely including our, still values RB as an important position. Not claiming to be right or wrong on this....just stating my views on the RB position, especially given our situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: I feel pretty bad for Dave doing all that work to show an irrelevant number. While i wouldn’t say irrelevant....especially with the Steelers cap room this offseason, they could go get Rodgers and Davante Adams if they REALLY wanted to...low yr 1 salary, voidable years etc etc....possibly even a upper tier FA OL to boot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcash4 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, AFF said: While i wouldn’t say irrelevant....especially with the Steelers cap room this offseason, they could go get Rodgers and Davante Adams if they REALLY wanted to...low yr 1 salary, voidable years etc etc....possibly even a upper tier FA OL to boot. The cap is all about flexibility -- of which we have a ton moving forward. There's just too many ways you can manipulate that number and with the 2023 boom coming, you could tell me we had $5M in cap space and I wouldn't be afraid of this offseason. Dave is gonna do his doom and gloom and show we have actually $18.75M in cap space.....then we restructure TJ, lower Minkahs cap in an extension, extend Tuitt, Restructure Cam, extend Boz, cut Banner and boom -- what do you know? $50M in created space. Sign a $50M per year guy for a first year $1M cap hit (super exaggeration) and we then have $49M in cap space. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFF Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dcash4 said: The cap is all about flexibility -- of which we have a ton moving forward. There's just too many ways you can manipulate that number and with the 2023 boom coming, you could tell me we had $5M in cap space and I wouldn't be afraid of this offseason. Dave is gonna do his doom and gloom and show we have actually $18.75M in cap space.....then we restructure TJ, lower Minkahs cap in an extension, extend Tuitt, Restructure Cam, extend Boz, cut Banner and boom -- what do you know? $50M in created space. Sign a $50M per year guy for a first year $1M cap hit (super exaggeration) and we then have $49M in cap space. Think they’re at roughly $45 mill going into offseason....they have $8 mill in cap rollover, a few easy cuts(Banner and Schobert), an easy Watt restructure and boom...they’re easily $70-$75 mill. Iys going to be a fun offseason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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