NYRaider Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, SimonGruber said: Guys are coming back from ACL’s a lot quicker no ? having mentioned that it’s still too risky. I thought he was a perfect fit for Carr Ranges from 8-12 months for guys depending on their bodies. I'd assume that Godwin gets a pretty lengthy deal in free agency though so whoever signs him will probably play it safe with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Byron Leftwich has had Tom Brady, Leonard Fournette, Mike Evans, Chris Godwin, Antonio Brown, Rob Gronkowski, and an elite offensive line in Tampa Bay. One thing about Leftwich is that his offenses with the Buccaneers have always been extremely pass happy. They've ranked 24th, 27th, and 28th in rushing yards over the last three seasons despite having a top tier scoring offense. Do we have the personnel for him to come in and run his scheme? And is his scheme that effective without multiple All-Pro WR's? Elite is strong to describe their 2019 line, do elite units use a top 15 pick on a OT? They gave up a lot of sacks but a lot of those were on Winston holding onto the ball for ages. He adapts his schemes, his Jameis offense was very different to his Brady one. I am never particularly bothered by pass happy coordinators, Andy Reid always had that thrown at him as well. There is question marks over any hire, you haven't particularly raised any that worry me greatly to be honest. I wouldn't be expecting a top 3 offense if we hired him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: Elite is strong to describe their 2019 line, do elite units use a top 15 pick on a OT? They gave up a lot of sacks but a lot of those were on Winston holding onto the ball for ages. He adapts his schemes, his Jameis offense was very different to his Brady one. I am never particularly bothered by pass happy coordinators, Andy Reid always had that thrown at him as well. There is question marks over any hire, you haven't particularly raised any that worry me greatly to be honest. I wouldn't be expecting a top 3 offense if we hired him either. Their offensive line has definitely been elite the last two seasons with Tom Brady. When Leftwich was without Bruce Arians in Arizona they literally had the worst offense in the entire NFL. Pass happy player callers find success with elite QB's and All-Pro pass catchers, we've seen it with Buffalo, Kansas City, LA Rams, and Tampa Bay. I wouldn't be against hiring Leftwich at all, I just think you have to take into account that his coaching success has all come in the best possible situation you could probably be in as a coordinator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 48 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Their offensive line has definitely been elite the last two seasons with Tom Brady. When Leftwich was without Bruce Arians in Arizona they literally had the worst offense in the entire NFL. Pass happy player callers find success with elite QB's and All-Pro pass catchers, we've seen it with Buffalo, Kansas City, LA Rams, and Tampa Bay. I wouldn't be against hiring Leftwich at all, I just think you have to take into account that his coaching success has all come in the best possible situation you could probably be in as a coordinator. He wasn't the play-caller until the last 7 weeks of the season or something like that so not particularly representative in AZ. Yeah obviously he has had a very favourable situation, although I am not sure I agree Jameis particularly represents the best situation you can have although still a good one with the weapons he had despite a spotty O-Line & run game. There isn't an offense in the league that is elite without elite players so the playcalling is really a moot point unless you have those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 23 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: He wasn't the play-caller until the last 7 weeks of the season or something like that so not particularly representative in AZ. Yeah obviously he has had a very favourable situation, although I am not sure I agree Jameis particularly represents the best situation you can have although still a good one with the weapons he had despite a spotty O-Line & run game. There isn't an offense in the league that is elite without elite players so the playcalling is really a moot point unless you have those. Their offense was terrible with Leftwich down the stretch of that season so you definitely have to take that into account as well. When he didn't have multiple all-pro players his offense was literally the worst in the entire NFL. His first year was a good but not great situation with Winston a former #1 overall pick and arguably the best WR duo in the NFL. The spotty run game has a lot to do with his unwillingness to commit to running the ball. Winston was always pretty turnover prone during his time with Tampa but it became extremely bad under Leftwich because he was asking him to push the ball down the field more the any QB in the NFL. Winston led the league in pass attempts while also leading the league in average air yards per attempt. Of QB's with 600+ throws his air yards per attempt was 2 yards more than any of them. So Leftwich not only asked him to throw the ball more than any player in the league, he also asked him to make difficult throws down the field more than any QB in the league as well. So I definitely think that you have to question his abilities as a play caller. When he had Winston he put more pressure on him to make big time throws then any play caller did with their QB in the entire league. The offense has definitely changed with the additions of Brady, Fournette, AB, and Gronk. But how much of that is Tom Brady's influence on what they're doing and how much of that is Leftwich? Even this season with Fournette, one of the best RB in the league, the Bucs have passed the ball more then any team in the league by a wide margin but they're 30th in rushing attempts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 17 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Their offense was terrible with Leftwich down the stretch of that season so you definitely have to take that into account as well. When he didn't have multiple all-pro players his offense was literally the worst in the entire NFL. His first year was a good but not great situation with Winston a former #1 overall pick and arguably the best WR duo in the NFL. The spotty run game has a lot to do with his unwillingness to commit to running the ball. Winston was always pretty turnover prone during his time with Tampa but it became extremely bad under Leftwich because he was asking him to push the ball down the field more the any QB in the NFL. Winston led the league in pass attempts while also leading the league in average air yards per attempt. Of QB's with 600+ throws his air yards per attempt was 2 yards more than any of them. So Leftwich not only asked him to throw the ball more than any player in the league, he also asked him to make difficult throws down the field more than any QB in the league as well. So I definitely think that you have to question his abilities as a play caller. When he had Winston he put more pressure on him to make big time throws then any play caller did with their QB in the entire league. The offense has definitely changed with the additions of Brady, Fournette, AB, and Gronk. But how much of that is Tom Brady's influence on what they're doing and how much of that is Leftwich? Even this season with Fournette, one of the best RB in the league, the Bucs have passed the ball more then any team in the league by a wide margin but they're 30th in rushing attempts. The offense improved under Leftwich, (went from 12.5 per game to 14 per game). There is not having multiple all pro players and there is having Josh Rosen. It was nothing to do with any lack of commitment, their O-Line was dire at run-blocking and they averaged 3.7 ypc so he had to create offense passing the ball. The idea that if you just run it lots then you have a better run game due to "commitment" has no truth to it. He certainly asked a lot of Jameis, he basically went all in on chunk plays to his big threat WRs (should probably point out neither have actually ever been first team all pro, in fact only Godwin has been out of any player who he has been coordinator of and even then he was 2nd team). Yes, and they have the 2nd best offense so why is it a bad thing that they are not doing the worse type of offense (rushing)? It would be rather idiotic to take the ball out of the hands of the greatest QB ever and give it to a decent at best RB (not even remotely close to one of the best in the league, a bust before he got to TB). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 10 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: The offense improved under Leftwich, (went from 12.5 per game to 14 per game). There is not having multiple all pro players and there is having Josh Rosen. It was nothing to do with any lack of commitment, their O-Line was dire at run-blocking and they averaged 3.7 ypc so he had to create offense passing the ball. The idea that if you just run it lots then you have a better run game due to "commitment" has no truth to it. He certainly asked a lot of Jameis, he basically went all in on chunk plays to his big threat WRs (should probably point out neither have actually ever been first team all pro, in fact only Godwin has been out of any player who he has been coordinator of and even then he was 2nd team). Yes, and they have the 2nd best offense so why is it a bad thing that they are not doing the worse type of offense (rushing)? It would be rather idiotic to take the ball out of the hands of the greatest QB ever and give it to a decent at best RB (not even remotely close to one of the best in the league, a bust before he got to TB). 14 points per game is still terrible. How well did asking Winston to throw the ball more then any QB in the league, while also asking him to push the ball down the field more then any QB in the league work out for the Bucs? Did he adjust as the season went on? Nope. He just continued to roll with a crazy inefficient arial attack as Jamies turned the ball over at a historic rate. You can get technically but Godwin and Evans are clearly two of the best WR's in the NFL and when they added Gronk and AB they had by far the best group of pass catchers in the league. My point is that while his scheme has worked with Tampa Bay, it's not a scheme that's going to transfer over well to most other teams. As you said they have the greatest QB in NFL History with arguably the greatest group of pass catchers in NFL History. Is he going to be able to do that here with Carr throwing to Renfrow and Zay? Leonard is definitely one of the better RB's in the league he was just in a terrible situation with the Jaguars. In the two seasons he was healthy with them he had 1,342 yards/10 TD and 1,674 yards/3 TD. This season with Tampa Bay he had 1,266 yards/10 TD in 14 games. In his final season with Jacksonville he was 6th in the NFL in APY behind only CMAC, Zeke, Chubb, Thomas, and Henry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jraider91 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, NYRaider said: 14 points per game is still terrible. How well did asking Winston to throw the ball more then any QB in the league, while also asking him to push the ball down the field more then any QB in the league work out for the Bucs? Did he adjust as the season went on? Nope. He just continued to roll with a crazy inefficient arial attack as Jamies turned the ball over at a historic rate. You can get technically but Godwin and Evans are clearly two of the best WR's in the NFL and when they added Gronk and AB they had by far the best group of pass catchers in the league. My point is that while his scheme has worked with Tampa Bay, it's not a scheme that's going to transfer over well to most other teams. As you said they have the greatest QB in NFL History with arguably the greatest group of pass catchers in NFL History. Is he going to be able to do that here with Carr throwing to Renfrow and Zay? Leonard is definitely one of the better RB's in the league he was just in a terrible situation with the Jaguars. In the two seasons he was healthy with them he had 1,342 yards/10 TD and 1,674 yards/3 TD. This season with Tampa Bay he had 1,266 yards/10 TD in 14 games. In his final season with Jacksonville he was 6th in the NFL in APY behind only CMAC, Zeke, Chubb, Thomas, and Henry. Jameis actually had a better than league average turnover worthy play % on deep downfield throws, it was his decision making short to intermediate. He got constantly picked in the flat. Their offense wasn't massively inefficient, over 2.1 points per drive is pretty good. Not elite but certainly not classed as inefficient. But didn't he have one of the best offensive HC in NFL history there? Why isn't he stepping in, I thought that was a concern of yours earlier? Fournette is just a guy. Certainly not close to the actual premier guys, his volume numbers are good but his efficiency is below average for his career. I wouldn't particularly want him on the Raiders to be honest, think Jacobs and Drake are better. I think there are comfortably 20 better backs in the league. Edited January 4, 2022 by Jraider91 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jraider91 said: Jameis actually had a better than league average turnover worthy play % on deep downfield throws, it was his decision making short to intermediate. He got constantly picked in the flat. Their offense wasn't massively inefficient, over 2.1 points per drive is pretty good. Not elite but certainly not classed as inefficient. Fournette is just a guy. Certainly not close to the actual premier guys, his volume numbers are good but his efficiency is below average for his career. I wouldn't particularly want him on the Raiders to be honest, think Jacobs and Drake are better. I think there are comfortably 20 better backs in the league. They won 7 games while Jameis single handedly cost them games throwing the ball because Leftwich never adjusted. Fournette was on terrible teams in Jacksonville but started to find his stride in his final season there. Last year the Bucs used more of a RB by committee approach in an offense incorporating a ton of new pieces. This season he has been a bell cow and as of now he's 7th in APY amongst RB ahead of Zeke, Aaron Jones, and Alvin Kamara. His 4.5 YPC is more efficient then Najee, Mixon, Zeke, Henry, Kamara, Jacobs, Conner etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonGruber Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 5 hours ago, Geezy said: Bro this ain’t Rocky 6 lol Need a Rocky 4 training montage. (Still never fails to pump me up). Carr needs to crumble that Bosa picture and yell his name from the mountain top. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 Running the ball and forcing turnovers are the keys to winning the game. In the games they've won they've averaged less then 1 TO per game, in their losses they've averaged 2 TO and allowed 150 ypg. Establishing the run early and an early takeaway would put us in a great spot but if they start the game hot and we're forced to abandon the run, we're likely going to get blown out. It can't turn into Carr trying to out play Herbert. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 hours ago, SimonGruber said: Need a Rocky 4 training montage. (Still never fails to pump me up). Carr needs to crumble that Bosa picture and yell his name from the mountain top. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 A lot has been made of the defensive improved we’ve seen the last 3 weeks and if it is valid or not due to the QBs we’ve faced. This will be a true test to see where we are at on that side of the ball. If they can keep us in it I like our chances. I don’t think we can keep up with the Chargers in a shootout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 53 minutes ago, Geezy said: A lot has been made of the defensive improved we’ve seen the last 3 weeks and if it is valid or not due to the QBs we’ve faced. This will be a true test to see where we are at on that side of the ball. If they can keep us in it I like our chances. I don’t think we can keep up with the Chargers in a shootout. DVOA they rank 10th in run defense and 25th in pass defense. Last 3 game played into the strength of their defense. This game will test that 25th ranking in pass defense. Chargers offense ranks 3rd in DVOA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: DVOA they rank 10th in run defense and 25th in pass defense. Last 3 game played into the strength of their defense. This game will test that 25th ranking in pass defense. Chargers offense ranks 3rd in DVOA. On the season our pass defense has been much better than our run defense. When we played the first time Herbert had 222 yards, they killed us on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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