Talent Acquisition and Separation

[onejayhawk]

5 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

This is like conversing with a box of rocks.

Are you the box or the rocks? 

In other news, this is an article on the RFA. We have four--Baker, Fortson, Gore, Lammons. Baker is a no-brainer to tender. Lammons is also easy--Hell No!. Fortson is partly dependent on his recovery. At this point, probably not. Gore is a maybe. We have had good luck finding RB among the veteran FA but he is one of only three RB on the roster, so it's close.
https://chiefswire.usatoday.com/lists/kansas-city-chiefs-exclusive-rights-free-agents-jody-fortson-deandre-baker-derrick-gore-chris-lammons/ 

[onejayhawk]

4 minutes ago, EMAW_KSU said:

The bottom line is, we can’t keep everyone, nor can we afford to just let everyone walk and bring in an entirely new defensive unit for the most part.  That’s where guess like Hughes if he’s cheap, Baker come in to play.  If we lose Ward, Hughes and Mathieu we have serious issues in the secondary, and that’s assuming we tender Baker.  Losing those three guys, and looking at FA/Draft I would think first round switches to DB and we’re after a younger FA Safety and at least One Edge.  I say this only because the Edge crop is so deep in the draft this year.

If we lose all three, we will lack depth and a hole at one safety. That is not what I would call serious issues. We won a Super Bowl with nothing better Sneed, Fenton, and Baker at CB and with Sorensen at one safety. It's not ideal but not time to panic. 

[RedGold]

11 minutes ago, mayanfootball said:

This is like conversing with a box of rocks.

There’s no need for this.   There’s a way to disagree without being a ….    

[EMAW_KSU]

1 hour ago, onejayhawk said:

If we lose all three, we will lack depth and a hole at one safety. That is not what I would call serious issues. We won a Super Bowl with nothing better Sneed, Fenton, and Baker at CB and with Sorensen at one safety. It's not ideal but not time to panic. 

Breeland, Fuller and Ward were significantly better than Baker, and that season all played better than Fenton (who was on the team).

[kingseanjohn]

I'm hoping we come out of the draft with two S. We only have Thornhill under contract and his is up next year. With as much as we play three S looks, we're going to have to address it early in the draft plus bring in a cheap vet.

Part of me hopes we bring in Keanu Neal to take over that hybrid S/LB spot. He'd likely just be a stopgap until the following year though.

[Jakuvious]

31 minutes ago, EMAW_KSU said:

Breeland, Fuller and Ward were significantly better than Baker, and that season all played better than Fenton (who was on the team).

I would argue Fenton has improved quite a bit since then, though. I wouldn't want him as the primary guy, but he had a far better season last year than Breeland did. He actually graded pretty similarly to Fuller, if you like PFF for that kind of thing.

But, I think Fenton, Sneed, and Thornhill are capable of being 3 of the top 5 guys in the secondary.

[Jakuvious]

4 hours ago, EMAW_KSU said:

If Ward get anywhere near JACKSON he is horribly overpaid, and I really like him.  We can’t get sucked into that.  If the CB market is going to blow up this year then we’re better off getting after DL in FA and addressing  secondary in the draft I guess.

Yeah, I'm fond of Ward as well, but if someone is going to throw anything north of $10M/year at him, they can have him.

[onejayhawk]

22 minutes ago, EMAW_KSU said:

Breeland, Fuller and Ward were significantly better than Baker, and that season all played better than Fenton (who was on the team).

I give you a point on that. Fuller made more of an impact as a safety, so I did not consider him as a CB. Baker is as good as Fenton was then. 

None of those three were as good as Sneed is now. It balances. It's not the situation you want but it is not a huge hole that needs to be plugged.

3 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

I would argue Fenton has improved quite a bit since then, though. I wouldn't want him as the primary guy, but he had a far better season last year than Breeland did. He actually graded pretty similarly to Fuller, if you like PFF for that kind of thing.

But, I think Fenton, Sneed, and Thornhill are capable of being 3 of the top 5 guys in the secondary.

Fenton may be as good now as Ward was when he first started. Of course, we had not been to two SB in the last three years back then.

You are making my point. Sneed and Thornhill are playmakers that you build the rest around. It makes the job a lot easier.

[onejayhawk]

OB Jr has not signed the franchise tag. The holdup is deciding whether to represent himself or to hire an agent. 
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/report_explains_hold_up_for_potential_orlando_brown_jr_contract_extension/s1_127_37280309

[EMAW_KSU]

34 minutes ago, onejayhawk said:

OB Jr has not signed the franchise tag. The holdup is deciding whether to represent himself or to hire an agent. 
https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/report_explains_hold_up_for_potential_orlando_brown_jr_contract_extension/s1_127_37280309

I think the big thing here, is Kansas City has made it abundantly clear, he’s in their long term plans and this just gave them more time to negotiate.  Hopefully this prevents any type of hold out drama.

[EMAW_KSU]

10 hours ago, onejayhawk said:

I give you a point on that. Fuller made more of an impact as a safety, so I did not consider him as a CB. Baker is as good as Fenton was then. 

None of those three were as good as Sneed is now. It balances. It's not the situation you want but it is not a huge hole that needs to be plugged.

Fenton may be as good now as Ward was when he first started. Of course, we had not been to two SB in the last three years back then.

You are making my point. Sneed and Thornhill are playmakers that you build the rest around. It makes the job a lot easier.

What I’m saying is that I’m very uncomfortable with Baker/Fenton being players who are counted on to play the majority of snaps at this point.  Baker was a 1st rounder but hasn’t shown a ton.  I like Fenton way more as a 3 then a 2.  Not to mention an injury would then be devastating.  Bottom line is (as I see it) we need to add a corner who can play either via draft or FA.  Safety is an even bigger need considering we literally have 1 under contract and we play with 3 so often.

[RedGold]

25 minutes ago, EMAW_KSU said:

What I’m saying is that I’m very uncomfortable with Baker/Fenton being players who are counted on to play the majority of snaps at this point.  Baker was a 1st rounder but hasn’t shown a ton.  I like Fenton way more as a 3 then a 2.  Not to mention an injury would then be devastating.  Bottom line is (as I see it) we need to add a corner who can play either via draft or FA.  Safety is an even bigger need considering we literally have 1 under contract and we play with 3 so often.

I think Veach / and the defensive coaching staff have earned  the right for us not to freak out about either position.   

I poke fun of some of their moves.   But what they have done with the DB group, for how little they've invested  is quite remarkable.    They seem to get solid production out of whomever they plug in.      Yes, some of the guys struggle,  but more the most part they always find that group the seems to Gel.

I'm sure there will be additions,   just think the FO/Coaching staff have earned the right for us  not to question the how/why they go about getting guys here.

 

[EMAW_KSU]

1 hour ago, RedGold said:

I think Veach / and the defensive coaching staff have earned  the right for us not to freak out about either position.   

I poke fun of some of their moves.   But what they have done with the DB group, for how little they've invested  is quite remarkable.    They seem to get solid production out of whomever they plug in.      Yes, some of the guys struggle,  but more the most part they always find that group the seems to Gel.

I'm sure there will be additions,   just think the FO/Coaching staff have earned the right for us  not to question the how/why they go about getting guys here.

 

I’m not questioning it, more thinking that at some point there we’ll need to invest rather than bandaid.  I ate we’ve had decent production, but it’s also been an issue at times, certainly last season the pass rush or lack there of didn’t help.

 I’m not freaking out, just saying I really hope we don’t back ourselves into situation where we end up re-signing Sorenson or Watts thinking they’re an answer.

[onejayhawk]

1 hour ago, EMAW_KSU said:

What I’m saying is that I’m very uncomfortable with Baker/Fenton being players who are counted on to play the majority of snaps at this point.  Baker was a 1st rounder but hasn’t shown a ton.  I like Fenton way more as a 3 then a 2.  Not to mention an injury would then be devastating.  Bottom line is (as I see it) we need to add a corner who can play either via draft or FA.  Safety is an even bigger need considering we literally have 1 under contract and we play with 3 so often.

I can understand that, especially since this is not a rebuilding team. However, as a fall back position it could be a lot worse. CB is an area where we can afford to make a second-tier priority.

1 hour ago, RedGold said:

I think Veach / and the defensive coaching staff have earned  the right for us not to freak out about either position.   

I poke fun of some of their moves.   But what they have done with the DB group, for how little they've invested  is quite remarkable.    They seem to get solid production out of whomever they plug in.      Yes, some of the guys struggle,  but more the most part they always find that group the seems to Gel.

I'm sure there will be additions,   just think the FO/Coaching staff have earned the right for us  not to question the how/why they go about getting guys here.

Exactly. We are at the starting stages of the process. If we are still looking at Fenton/ Baker in May, I will feel differently. 

[RedGold]

20 minutes ago, EMAW_KSU said:

I’m not questioning it, more thinking that at some point there we’ll need to invest rather than bandaid.  I ate we’ve had decent production, but it’s also been an issue at times, certainly last season the pass rush or lack there of didn’t help.

 I’m not freaking out, just saying I really hope we don’t back ourselves into situation where we end up re-signing Sorenson or Watts thinking they’re an answer.

Oh for sure.    I'm just not sure they are just band aiding.   I would wager we run Apex Coverages more than any team in the NFL.     It's much less of telling a man  "hey lock down this guy presnap" ,   as being able to understand Route Stems and adjusting post snap.      Alabama is famous for it,    I think it's why you see so many Alabama CB's struggle when they get to the NFL and teams expect them to strictly lock a WR presnap.    

I'm not saying anything as fact, most obviously.  I just think they like to get guys who process route stems quickly in the system and they really aren't concerned if they are top tier guys.   It's a totally different skill.     We do at times go strict man coverage,  but a lot of times we are adjusting our man coverage on the fly.   

I will not disagree that we haven't done enough to bring fresh rookies in though.     It will be interesting to see what it looks like "if" Mathieu isn't back with his presnap knowledge.