Whistlegate

[Daniel]

People are literally arguing that a ref blowing a whistle while a TD pass was in midair being upheld is the more fair option.

[pwny]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

People are literally arguing that a ref blowing a whistle while a TD pass was in midair being upheld is the more fair option.

Not only this. But

Doing some back of napkin math, the ref that blew the whistle was standing at the 12 yard line. The ref that witnessed the TD was in the middle of the field outside the end zone. Meaning the two of them were about 108 feet from each other.

At 6pm on Saturday, the temp in Cincy was 27°. At 27°, the speed of sound is 1080f/s. Meaning that for the sound of the whistle to travel from one ref to the other, it would have taken one tenth of a second.

As best I can tell from the original video feed I got a hold of, from the millisecond when Burrow’s foot hits the ground to the millisecond that Boyd has his hands on the ball, we have .97 seconds between the two events. By the time we hear the whistle — picked up by the parabolic mic located 2 feet behind the ref, so virtually no sound lag — .47 seconds have elapsed, leaving .50 seconds between the whistle beginning and Boyd grabbing the ball. Then subtracting out the time for the sound to travel, we’re left with basically four-tenths of a second between when the ref behind the end zone would hear the whistle and would see the ball go into Boyd’s hands.

We’re expecting people with no video review, no anything that they’re allowed to use to get it right, to process live order of events down to within four-tenths of a second. This is quite honestly insane. It literally took the whistle blower more time to see Burrow step out of bounds and begin the process of whistling than the amount of time between when the whistle was heard and when the ball was touched by Boyd.

The only one who could reasonably be able to know whether or not the whistle was blown before the ball got to Boyd’s hands is the ref who blew the whistle. The only problem is, him blowing the whistle is entirely contingent on him not knowing where the ball was when he whistled. Had he known the ball was in the air at all, he wouldn’t have blown the whistle.

What’s worse is that all the other refs heard the difference between the point of the catch and the whistle at different times. This difference is so drastic depending on how far away they could be that one of the stadium mics actually picked up the sound of the whistle after Boyd had his hands on the ball.

I don’t know how anyone can think the Raiders were screwed, or how anyone can think the floodgates are opened because the refs made a mistake on something within less than a half second of precision. 

[Shady Slim]

9 hours ago, pwny said:

 

I don’t know how anyone can think the Raiders were screwed, or how anyone can think the floodgates are opened because the refs made a mistake on something within less than a half second of precision. 

the raiders were screwed not because of some grand idea that the raiders dbacks would've been able to bat the ball were the whistle not blown but rather because the rule is very very black and white and wasn't applied.

it's not as if, if there's a miswhistle the play's dead unless in the refs' discretion they decide the miswhistle had no impact on the play; play's dunzo as soon as it's blown, no if, no and, no but.

[NYRaider]

11 hours ago, Daniel said:

People are literally arguing that a ref blowing a whistle while a TD pass was in midair being upheld is the more fair option.

Our safety pulled up because he thought the play was dead, lol.

[Daniel]

4 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Our safety pulled up because he thought the play was dead, lol.

Sure he did.

[pwny]

7 hours ago, Shady Slim said:

the raiders were screwed not because of some grand idea that the raiders dbacks would've been able to bat the ball were the whistle not blown but rather because the rule is very very black and white and wasn't applied.

it's not as if, if there's a miswhistle the play's dead unless in the refs' discretion they decide the miswhistle had no impact on the play; play's dunzo as soon as it's blown, no if, no and, no but.

Yes, the rule is black and white. But just because a rule isn’t applied doesn’t mean a team was screwed.

The rules are also clear that a quarterback can throw the ball while he’s behind the LOS and in the field of play, and that him stepping out of bounds after releasing the ball doesn’t end the play. The act of the whistle happening because he stepped out of bounds after releasing the ball, with the play result, with the rules as they’re supposed to be applied, screwed the Bengals. Immediately upon the ref blowing the whistle with a catch inevitable and completed with no one within range to make a play on it, the Raiders gained an unfair advantage from the rules as written. They would get to negate a TD from the Bengals that the Bengals fairly earned, simply because of the official’s mistake.

We can’t just look at the second mistake and act as if that’s the only measure we view the play result and this whether someone was screwed or not. When the second mistake happened on the same play, they did nothing but offset each other. It didn’t swing the sum of the play in an opposite direction from what the teams deserved based on what the players did. The Bengals did not benefit from the cumulative actions of the refs, and the Raiders were not harmed by the cumulative actions of the refs, either. Rules as written, the down should have been replayed. But also rules as written, the play shouldn’t ever have been whistled dead.

Yes, the down should have been replayed. Those are the rules. I agree the rules should be applied. But with acknowledging that, we have to acknowledge that this means that for this instance, the Raiders should have been given an unfair advantage due to the ref error. The Raiders not being given an unfair advantage doesn’t screw them over, it simply offsets the unfair advantage they were set to receive. We can’t just look at the one action of the officials on the play without also looking at the preceding action to determine the full extent of the impact. The Bengals were screwed by whistle, the Raiders were screwed by the misapplication of the rule. But together, it resulted in nobody being screwed.

There’s a gripe to be had about the officials making two different significant blunders on a single key play. It was stupid for the official to blow the whistle without knowing where the ball was, and it’s stupid that the refs aren’t allowed to review when a whistle happens and instead have to rely on imprecise memories and the speed of sound in situations like this. But there’s no gripe to be had on behalf of the Raiders. The Raiders simply were given what they earned.

[pwny]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Our safety pulled up because he thought the play was dead, lol.

Your safety wasn’t in position to make a play prior to the whistle, and pulled up like literally every defender in the league pulls up when he knows the defense just got beat for a TD. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, pwny said:

Your safety wasn’t in position to make a play prior to the whistle, and pulled up like literally every defender in the league pulls up when he knows the defense just got beat for a TD. 

Moehrig is a different breed my boy

[otg]

18 hours ago, pwny said:

Not only this. But

Doing some back of napkin math, the ref that blew the whistle was standing at the 12 yard line. The ref that witnessed the TD was in the middle of the field outside the end zone. Meaning the two of them were about 108 feet from each other.

At 6pm on Saturday, the temp in Cincy was 27°. At 27°, the speed of sound is 1080f/s. Meaning that for the sound of the whistle to travel from one ref to the other, it would have taken one tenth of a second.

As best I can tell from the original video feed I got a hold of, from the millisecond when Burrow’s foot hits the ground to the millisecond that Boyd has his hands on the ball, we have .97 seconds between the two events. By the time we hear the whistle — picked up by the parabolic mic located 2 feet behind the ref, so virtually no sound lag — .47 seconds have elapsed, leaving .50 seconds between the whistle beginning and Boyd grabbing the ball. Then subtracting out the time for the sound to travel, we’re left with basically four-tenths of a second between when the ref behind the end zone would hear the whistle and would see the ball go into Boyd’s hands.

We’re expecting people with no video review, no anything that they’re allowed to use to get it right, to process live order of events down to within four-tenths of a second. This is quite honestly insane. It literally took the whistle blower more time to see Burrow step out of bounds and begin the process of whistling than the amount of time between when the whistle was heard and when the ball was touched by Boyd.

The only one who could reasonably be able to know whether or not the whistle was blown before the ball got to Boyd’s hands is the ref who blew the whistle. The only problem is, him blowing the whistle is entirely contingent on him not knowing where the ball was when he whistled. Had he known the ball was in the air at all, he wouldn’t have blown the whistle.

What’s worse is that all the other refs heard the difference between the point of the catch and the whistle at different times. This difference is so drastic depending on how far away they could be that one of the stadium mics actually picked up the sound of the whistle after Boyd had his hands on the ball.

I don’t know how anyone can think the Raiders were screwed, or how anyone can think the floodgates are opened because the refs made a mistake on something within less than a half second of precision. 

Look at that big nerdy brain!

I half assed what you did. Lazily picked 30 for my speed of sound calculation. I didn't account for the positions and actually distances. I did just enough to show that footage with whistle sound at different points wasn't the video being altered, it's just how sound and distance work

But you really outside myself.

800 points for Hufflepuff!

[SmittyBacall]

Whoops! Wrong thread.

Edited January 18, 2022 by SmittyBacall

[incognito_man]

Anyone who thinks the Raiders were somehow screwed either have a massive agenda that leaves them totally incapable of being impartial, or are delusional.

[Tk3]

1 hour ago, incognito_man said:

Anyone who thinks the Raiders were somehow screwed either have a massive agenda that leaves them totally incapable of being impartial, or are delusional.

yep

"The refs almost gave us a MASSIVE and completely egregious break, but then that break didn't happen"

We got screwed