rob_shadows Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 To play devil's advocate a little more... He's mentioned that where important is dominant PEAK performance... Not longevity... He also mentioned Jerry Rice 11 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: You are right insofar I do have a bias. I watched a lot of Brady games throughout his career. I've watched a lot of other QBs. Brady was always great, but never struck me as greater than his contemporaries. When you look at other GOATs like LT, Jim Brown, Reggie White, Jerry Rice, they WERE greater. Just like Jordan or Ruth in other sports. I'm just trying to hold Brady to the same standard others hold other GOATs. Just to play devil's advocate a little more you've mentioned that you think what makes a GOAT is dominant PEAK performance... Not longevity. However... That list of names you just mentioned... None of them are goats by that metric. In their prime peak years both Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson were just as dominant as Jerry Rice... The only reason he's the goat? Longevity... He did it longer than them... But the reality is they WERE just as dominant at their peaks. Reggie White? Same story...J.J Watt at his peak was just as dominant... Hell maybe even more dominant.. So why is White the goat? Longevity he sustained his peak longer. Jim Brown? Well this one is actually highly debated anyway and doesn't even belong on this list. He isn't viewed as a unanimous goat as it's often argued that it's Barry, Walter, etc... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingin' Sammy Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 12 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: You are right insofar I do have a bias. I watched a lot of Brady games throughout his career. I've watched a lot of other QBs. Brady was always great, but never struck me as greater than his contemporaries. When you look at other GOATs like LT, Jim Brown, Reggie White, Jerry Rice, they WERE greater. Just like Jordan or Ruth in other sports. I'm just trying to hold Brady to the same standard others hold other GOATs. How do you think Rice’s peak stacks up with Moss’s? I think you’re making some interesting points. I thinks that guys like Manning, Rodgers, Marino, etc. had stretches where they definitely seemed to “transcend” QB play more than Brady ever did (except for maybe 2007). But Brady’s combination of consistently elite/borderline elite numbers factored in with post season success (even though a lot of that was contributed by Belichick and the team around him) makes him the GOAT. If he had Matt Ryan’s regular season stats, but still won a similar amount in the payoffs, I think your argument would hold more weight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 26 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: They had a strong running game, they had Edelman, they had Scarnecchia coaching up the O-line great, and they had Belichick. They won 1 playoff game vs the Colts. Let's not get carried away. Edelman at that point was in his first year as a starter and was a complete unknown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, rob_shadows said: To play devil's advocate a little more... He's mentioned that where important is dominant PEAK performance... Not longevity... He also mentioned Jerry Rice Just to play devil's advocate a little more you've mentioned that you think what makes a GOAT is dominant PEAK performance... Not longevity. However... That list of names you just mentioned... None of them are goats by that metric. In their prime peak years both Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson were just as dominant as Jerry Rice... The only reason he's the goat? Longevity... He did it longer than them... But the reality is they WERE just as dominant at their peaks. Reggie White? Same story...J.J Watt at his peak was just as dominant... Hell maybe even more dominant.. So why is White the goat? Longevity he sustained his peak longer. Jim Brown? Well this one is actually highly debated anyway and doesn't even belong on this list. He isn't viewed as a unanimous goat as it's often argued that it's Barry, Walter, etc... You forgot the proof that was posited on the old FF site (and which has me tempted to go do an IP address comparison, except I'm no longer a mod on this site any longer, so I'll have to sit back and wait till @Dome get drunk enough to be persuaded): That LT was overrated (and thus clearly cannot be the GOAT) because he might get injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 minute ago, Dr LBC said: You forgot the proof that was posited on the old FF site (and which has me tempted to go do an IP address comparison, except I'm no longer a mod on this site any longer, so I'll have to sit back and wait till @Dome get drunk enough to be persuaded): That LT was overrated (and thus clearly cannot be the GOAT) because he might get injured. Yeah - we can't IP compare like we used to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr LBC Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Just now, ET80 said: Yeah - we can't IP compare like we used to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, Dr LBC said: I've already had him checked - nothing. This is a genuine, new brand of special thinking. Also - @Dome ain't a Mod no mo. I had to hit him in the head with a hammer to gain his powers. I immediately regretted the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_shadows Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 Ehh...IP comparing doesn't really work these days anyway... Everyone and their mother is using VPNs now.. Even if they have no real need to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 4 minutes ago, ET80 said: I've already had him checked - nothing. This is a genuine, new brand of special thinking. Also - @Dome ain't a Mod no mo. I had to hit him in the head with a hammer to gain his powers. I immediately regretted the decision. Worked out for me, I have an excuse to only buy Velcro shoes now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 2 minutes ago, rob_shadows said: Ehh...IP comparing doesn't really work these days anyway... Everyone and their mother is using VPNs now.. Even if they have no real need to. True, I have no less than 14 active FF profiles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 21 minutes ago, rob_shadows said: Ehh...IP comparing doesn't really work these days anyway... Everyone and their mother is using VPNs now.. Even if they have no real need to. Valid, very valid point. Guess I'll need to get another looksee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said: Most the people who need to laugh at others while hiding behind an online profile are not that impressive. Possibly, but the only thing lamer than internet jokes… 1 hour ago, AngusMcFife said: I'm guessing you wouldn't be laughing long under different circumstances. …are internet tough guy threats. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 21 minutes ago, rob_shadows said: In their prime peak years both Randy Moss and Calvin Johnson were just as dominant as Jerry Rice... The only reason he's the goat? Longevity... He did it longer than them... But the reality is they WERE just as dominant at their peaks. I'm not sure about that. I admit Moss had about as dominant peak as anyone. BUT... From 1986-1996 Rice led the league in receiving yards 6 times, TDs 6 times, and was All Pro 10x. Randy Moss never led the league in yards, and was 4x All Pro in his career. While Moss was incredibly dominant, I think Rice outperformed his contemporaries by a far greater margin. There is also the issue of Moss taking plays off, which I think dings him just a bit. I don't see as strong a case for Calvin Johnson. I go with Owens as 2nd greatest tied with Moss. Quote Reggie White? Same story...J.J Watt at his peak was just as dominant... Hell maybe even more dominant.. So why is White the goat? Longevity he sustained his peak longer. That's fair, but J.J. Watt had 4 dominant years, I'd say White had at least 8 or 9. If one player sustained his dominance and another didn't, I'll go with the sustainer. Also, Watt freelanced just a bit too much for my taste. A more interesting question would be, at what point is Aaron Donald going to considered DT GOAT? Quote Jim Brown? Well this one is actually highly debated anyway and doesn't even belong on this list. He isn't viewed as a unanimous goat as it's often argued that it's Barry, Walter, etc... If you look at how dominant he was compared to his contemporaries, though Jim Brown was light-years ahead of his time. He led the league in rushing 8 out of 9 years while leading in rushing TDs 5 years. As good as Barry and Peyton were, they had contemporaries that were performing close to their level. Payton led the league in rushing yards 1x and TDs 1x, and Barry 4x and 1x. I judge the greatness based on their performance relative to their contemporaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 33 minutes ago, biggie. said: Edelman at that point was in his first year as a starter and was a complete unknown. Well, he caught 105 balls that year, and we now know that he was a very good WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Possibly, but the only thing lamer than internet jokes… …are internet tough guy threats. You caught that too, eh? I chortled. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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