Deshaun Watson is a Cleveland Brown

[DawgX]

1 hour ago, Rod Johnson said:

Maybe my standards are low as a Browns fan, but I wouldn't consider Baker an absolutely blown pick.  He had some success here, just never good enough to give a mega contract to and blew his shoulder and looked bad the year he needed to prove he was worth a deal.

Better than picking Darnold.  It panned out worse than Josh Allen.  Lamar Jackson wasn't even a consideration for anybody in the top 10.  Also maybe I'm biased because I didn't have much faith in Allen and it still surprises me he turned out this good.  He took leaps in his game, Baker was pretty much the same guy for 4 years either due to just reaching his potential in college, constant system changes, or just didn't work hard.

And chances are, Allen busts had he been drafted here with all the coaching changes we had.

[DawgX]

57 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Any time you go away from the expert consensus on measurables and miss/get the third best quarterback, that’s a bust IMO unless it’s 1983 or 2003. But more than that, let’s look at who else he got:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm

Corbett was a bust here, Chad Thomas was a meme at the time, Antonio Callaway was a calculated risk, then the next year he got Greedy, Mack Wilson, and Redwine after the OBJ trade while also losing out on a starting OG and S that we dealt.

So yeah, I’m glad we got Ward and Chubb and that Wyatt Teller was a throw in player. Aside from that, he was pretty lousy here compared to the war chest and cap cache he was given.

I don't totally disagree, but I'd say Dorsey was above average.

Corbett was a bust here, yes, but he's proven to be a solid starter once he was traded to the Rams. It was just a mistake to try and make him into a tackle.

The Thomas pick was a bust and most of us knew it from the time he was drafted. No argument there.

Calloway was worth the risk. Showed flashes his rookie year, but was an idiot.

Wilson and Redwine were midround picks. Most of them don't pan out.

Dorsey or someone in the front office must have saw something in Teller. With some good coaching, he's proven to be a stud and it only cost us like two 5th round picks IIRC. Point is, you gotta give Dorsey credit there.

And remember, some gave the Browns some flack for drafting Ward over Bradley Chubb, and obviously Ward has proven to be a top CB. Greedy has been solid when healthy. Peppers nor Zeitler lasted long in NY either, so I don't think they were huge losses. If we kept Zeitler, we likely don't have Teller at this point.

Not saying he was perfect by any means, but I think it's unfair to say he did a lousy job. Him supposedly wanting to keep Kitchens after he proved to be in way over his head as HC is inexcusable, though.
 

[MWil23]

33 minutes ago, DawgX said:

I don't totally disagree, but I'd say Dorsey was above average.

Corbett was a bust here, yes, but he's proven to be a solid starter once he was traded to the Rams. It was just a mistake to try and make him into a tackle.

The Thomas pick was a bust and most of us knew it from the time he was drafted. No argument there.

Calloway was worth the risk. Showed flashes his rookie year, but was an idiot.

Wilson and Redwine were midround picks. Most of them don't pan out.

Dorsey or someone in the front office must have saw something in Teller. With some good coaching, he's proven to be a stud and it only cost us like two 5th round picks IIRC. Point is, you gotta give Dorsey credit there.

And remember, some gave the Browns some flack for drafting Ward over Bradley Chubb, and obviously Ward has proven to be a top CB. Greedy has been solid when healthy. Peppers nor Zeitler lasted long in NY either, so I don't think they were huge losses. If we kept Zeitler, we likely don't have Teller at this point.

Not saying he was perfect by any means, but I think it's unfair to say he did a lousy job. Him supposedly wanting to keep Kitchens after he proved to be in way over his head as HC is inexcusable, though.
 

Like I said, I grade him average. Basically 3 firsts and one panned out. Teller was a great trade, Corbett was a bad draft/trade so he doesn’t get credit. He gets a solid C for average from me. Nothing warrants higher IMO, and that doesn’t even take the Kitchens fiasco and front office power struggle into account.

[Thomas5737]

16 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Like I said, I grade him average. Basically 3 firsts and one panned out. Teller was a great trade, Corbett was a bad draft/trade so he doesn’t get credit. He gets a solid C for average from me. Nothing warrants higher IMO, and that doesn’t even take the Kitchens fiasco and front office power struggle into account.

Baker was ROTY and was very good his 3rd year and won a playoff game. Yeah year 2 was rough with a bad O-line and bad coaching and year 4 was bad with injury, bad OTs and bad coaching.

We haven't seen the best of Baker. We never ran the offense he would be best at, for whatever reason (coaching egos).

Chubb was 1st round value..

Dorsey certainly had issues but it isn't like the 2020 draft has been anything yet. Wills hasn't been 1st round quality. Delpit hasn't emerged yet. Nor Bryant. DPJ has been good for where he was drafted. We're probably only going to remember JOK and Newsome from last years draft. This years draft and the next couple are dependent on Watson being good enough to cover 3 firsts plus additional. High risk and only the greatest reward will make it a success. Otherwise we were already trending in the right direction and could have added top notch young talent.

[MWil23]

26 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Baker was ROTY

No he wasn’t it was Barkley.

26 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

and was very good his 3rd year and won a playoff game.

Like it or not he’s the third best quarterback in that draft and was taken 1 overall. That’s extremely underwhelming and not a good pick.

26 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah year 2 was rough with a bad O-line and bad coaching and year 4 was bad with injury, bad OTs and bad coaching.

We haven't seen the best of Baker. We never ran the offense he would be best at, for whatever reason (coaching egos).

No one else wanted Baker. I think he is who he is at this point. You don’t. We will agree to disagree.

26 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Chubb was 1st round value..

Absolutely. Great pick. I’d argue most GM’s would hit on 2 of 4 picks in the Top 35 though. Pick 35 is almost in the first.

26 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Dorsey certainly had issues but it isn't like the 2020 draft has been anything yet. Wills hasn't been 1st round quality. Delpit hasn't emerged yet. Nor Bryant. DPJ has been good for where he was drafted.
 

Well we fired Dorsey December of 2019. Happy New Years Eve to him, so he did not pick any of those guys.

26 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

We're probably only going to remember JOK and Newsome from last years draft. This years draft and the next couple are dependent on Watson being good enough to cover 3 firsts plus additional. High risk and only the greatest reward will make it a success. Otherwise we were already trending in the right direction and could have added top notch young talent.

I’m only talking about Dorsey here. 

[brownie man]

Dorsey deserves an A

he got Nick Chubb on the Browns 

That deserves an A period. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by brownie man

[Thomas5737]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Baker was ROTY

No he wasn’t it was Barkley.

Well they split the two awards.

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

and was very good his 3rd year and won a playoff game.

Like it or not he’s the third best quarterback in that draft and was taken 1 overall. That’s extremely underwhelming and not a good pick.

So far,he was 2nd best last year. Lamar was even worse even though he didn't play through injury.

 

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Dorsey certainly had issues but it isn't like the 2020 draft has been anything yet. Wills hasn't been 1st round quality. Delpit hasn't emerged yet. Nor Bryant. DPJ has been good for where he was drafted.
 

Well we fired Dorsey December of 2019. Happy New Years Eve to him, so he did not pick any of those guys.

3 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

We're probably only going to remember JOK and Newsome from last years draft. This years draft and the next couple are dependent on Watson being good enough to cover 3 firsts plus additional. High risk and only the greatest reward will make it a success. Otherwise we were already trending in the right direction and could have added top notch young talent.

I’m only talking about Dorsey here. 

I was comparing Dorsey to the drafts since. There are going to be misses

[MWil23]

6 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well they split the two awards.

Okay 

6 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

So far,he was 2nd best last year. Lamar was even worse even though he didn't play through injury.

Lamar won an MVP. I’d say he’s infinitely better so far. 

6 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I was comparing Dorsey to the drafts since. There are going to be misses

There are definitely going to be misses. Those misses can’t be #1 overall on quarterbacks, especially when one of the others is an MVP and the other guy has emerged as a Top 5 guy in the entire league. He hit on Chubb and Ward with a nice trade for Teller, signed Hunt, and every other pick was mediocre at best while making a lot of bad hires.

[big poppa pump]

2 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Okay 

Lamar won an MVP. I’d say he’s infinitely better so far. 

There are definitely going to be misses. Those misses can’t be #1 overall on quarterbacks, especially when one of the others is an MVP and the other guy has emerged as a Top 5 guy in the entire league. He hit on Chubb and Ward with a nice trade for Teller, signed Hunt, and every other pick was mediocre at best while making a lot of bad hires.

What was more egregious? Dorsey picking Mayfield over Allen?

Or Sashi taking Garrett over Mahomes, and then trading away their second first rounder that could have been Watson?

 

the defense rests your honor

[MWil23]

9 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

What was more egregious? Dorsey picking Mayfield over Allen?

Or Sashi taking Garrett over Mahomes, and then trading away their second first rounder that could have been Watson?

No question that’s bad, but at least Myles has been an All Pro and one of the best pass rushers in the league. It’s like drafting Hakeem over MJ. Not good but definitely no one faults them for getting a HOF caliber player (at least trajectory).

What’s funny about that is Watson was #1 on their board at 12 but Hue insisted on Hooker, so the compromise was trading back for their next best safety in Peppers. Sashi lacked a spine and Hue was clueless. 

9 minutes ago, big poppa pump said:

the defense rests your honor

I’d say that at least we got Peppers and a Top 5 future pick while netting an All Pro pass rusher as opposed to an average to below average quarterback with the first overall pick.

[big poppa pump]

14 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

No question that’s bad, but at least Myles has been an All Pro and one of the best pass rushers in the league. It’s like drafting Hakeem over MJ. Not good but definitely no one faults them for getting a HOF caliber player (at least trajectory).

I mean we all love Myles..but cmon....we are talking about the difference between a QB that has won a SB vs an elite pass rusher...

 

15 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

What’s funny about that is Watson was #1 on their board at 12 but Hue insisted on Hooker, so the compromise was trading back for their next best safety in Peppers. Sashi lacked a spine and Hue was clueless. 

cue the rock eye roll.....

let's not get into who the coach allegedly wanted....you are the G freaking M.  If you had Watson as your #1 (allegedly) and he is there at 12.....bi..h please

 

Sashi was good at trading away picks....errrrrr....i mean getting draft capital

Dorsey has an eye for talent...but was power hungry, and horrible at picking a HC.

[DaWg_LB.]

On 7/27/2022 at 3:48 PM, mtmmike said:

Be realistic

Burrows plus 3 number 1s

Lamar plus 3 number 1s

Pittsburgh who drafted 21 with a 26 ranked qb plus 3 number 1s.

Just remember berry outside of myles Garrett has not drafted 1 all pro.

I feel you here...but he has been part of front offices that has drafted all pro's.

BUT if we look at his track record....if you dont draft an all pro...BUT you draft 7 players in within 3 years you get 6 starters and 1 KEY Backup...not missing on 1 draft.....WOW...

And looking at his 2nd draft.....Newsome II and JOK look like stars in the making.....Schwartz, Hudson, Tongia and Felton will all be key backups this year.....Fields will be a core ST. and Lecounte may start at FS in our Big Nickle look.....so that's 2 SOLID drafts.....

This year, the draft is still being looked at .....Cade York, Bell,  Emmerson and the DT from Oklahoma may all be key contributors this year......and some very good prospects in the pipeline at DE, RB and C...not to mention we have to Count Deshaun Watson as part of the next 3 draft classes IMO......

IF we have a GM that is not drafting All pro's, but drafting 5-7 NFL starters PER cycle....I'm good with that.....because if you keep picking NFL talent in 80% of your draft picks...you WILL eventually hit some all pro's and pro bowlers....IMO

 

[Kiwibrown]

18 hours ago, MWil23 said:

Any time you go away from the expert consensus on measurables and miss/get the third best quarterback, that’s a bust IMO unless it’s 1983 or 2003. But more than that, let’s look at who else he got:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cle/draft.htm

Corbett was a bust here, Chad Thomas was a meme at the time, Antonio Callaway was a calculated risk, then the next year he got Greedy, Mack Wilson, and Redwine after the OBJ trade while also losing out on a starting OG and S that we dealt.

So yeah, I’m glad we got Ward and Chubb and that Wyatt Teller was a throw in player. Aside from that, he was pretty lousy here compared to the war chest and cap cache he was given.

It would be like giving someone 10 million cash and they turn it into a 2017 tesla and a couple of rental properties. Great, but could have done a lot better.

[brownie man]

The league needs to grow up and make a settlement with Deshaun. 
 

they should be embarrassed they are letting this woman who has never made a nfl decision start with this. 
 

there’s no precedent for her to be able to make a decision on this. They need to just settle with Deshauns team. This lady shouldn’t be responsible for this call in my opinion. First day on the job and you get an impossible situation. The league needs to just settle with Deshaun on 6-8 so this lady doesn’t have to deal with backlash. 
 

them putting this all on her is immature and childish. 

[Thomas5737]

51 minutes ago, brownie man said:

The league needs to grow up and make a settlement with Deshaun. 
 

they should be embarrassed they are letting this woman who has never made a nfl decision start with this. 
 

there’s no precedent for her to be able to make a decision on this. They need to just settle with Deshauns team. This lady shouldn’t be responsible for this call in my opinion. First day on the job and you get an impossible situation. The league needs to just settle with Deshaun on 6-8 so this lady doesn’t have to deal with backlash. 
 

them putting this all on her is immature and childish. 

You seem to be mentioning her gender a lot. As a judge I don't see how it matters.

I'm sure she will do her job like always. Look at previous cases and suspend him where it aligns in comparison to those.