Do you know enough to give up on Deshone Kizer?

[brownie man]

6 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

These guys were all extremely high picks with ceilings that were clearly predicted, that's why they went so high in the draft. Kizer is a second round pick, that 31 other teams, with far better talent appraisers than we possess, found him totally wanting, as a potential franchise QB. People, who think Kizer will eventually develop, simply are being naive. This guy at his best, is a career backup and far more likely to be out of the league by year 3, if not sooner.

The NFL GM's know the odds on late round 1 QB's is around 6% and QB's drafted later, have a far less chance at success. Kizer already entered the league with less than a 6% chance he would succeed and his stats are right there with almost every QB who has flopped in the NFL. Putting you money on this guy to develop, is simply crazy. He is a wasted 2nd round pick and nothing more!

I am not even worried that Cleveland will attempt to develop this guy as our starter, they are going to draft a QB with the 1st overall pick, no matter who is in charge of the selection. It would be career insanity, to pass on a QB for any other position.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^

We gonna come back to this

[bruceb]

18 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

I am not even worried that Cleveland will attempt to develop this guy as our starter, they are going to draft a QB with the 1st overall pick, no matter who is in charge of the selection. It would be career insanity, to pass on a QB for any other position.

Yup.

Might not be with the 1st overall but with their 1st for sure.

[buno67]

9 hours ago, Iamcanadian said:

These guys were all extremely high picks with ceilings that were clearly predicted, that's why they went so high in the draft. Kizer is a second round pick, that 31 other teams, with far better talent appraisers than we possess, found him totally wanting, as a potential franchise QB. People, who think Kizer will eventually develop, simply are being naive. This guy at his best, is a career backup and far more likely to be out of the league by year 3, if not sooner.

The NFL GM's know the odds on late round 1 QB's is around 6% and QB's drafted later, have a far less chance at success. Kizer already entered the league with less than a 6% chance he would succeed and his stats are right there with almost every QB who has flopped in the NFL. Putting you money on this guy to develop, is simply crazy. He is a wasted 2nd round pick and nothing more!

I am not even worried that Cleveland will attempt to develop this guy as our starter, they are going to draft a QB with the 1st overall pick, no matter who is in charge of the selection. It would be career insanity, to pass on a QB for any other position.

Oh im only then Rosen band wagon...I was just taking the other side when it came to the debate  also I’m not going to play that 31 other teams didn’t want him. Teams wanted him but just not at the value pick. Rumors are that a lot of teams were starting to target Kizer at the area the browns got him because of his raw natural talent  still have faith in him. I just have no faith in Hue.

 

TEAM HAS DIIIIIIED....

HE IS ROSENNN....

TOUCHDOWNS WILL COME AGAAAAAAIN...

He will be our biblical savorior!!!

[Mastercheddaar]

4 hours ago, buno67 said:

Rumors are that a lot of teams were starting to target Kizer at the area the browns got him because of his raw natural talent  still have faith in him. I just have no faith in Hue.

 

Probably a lot of teams with an established starter getting up there in age. Kizer COULD have sat and learned then adapted to the speed of the pros. Kid was too green at this point in his career. Raw talent to the pros is like a block of clay magically turning into a work of art. It has all the potential, if you take your time. Hue and the FO need a color by numbers QB to get us started at this point. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[FGK]

17 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said:

Hue and the FO need a color by numbers QB to get us started at this point. 

See, I agree with this, and see it as an indictment of the coaching staff moreso than a condemnation of Kizer. Kizer definitely has fault, he hasn't been good. But the coaches did NOTHING to the offensive system to help out a rookie QB struggling with a transition to the pros. College isn't pumping out ready made NFL QBs anymore. Except for freak occasions, even the ones who end up good struggle right off the bat. New coaches are going to need to learn how to smooth the growth curve (as McVay has for Goff this year) and work the offense around their strengths rather than their weaknesses. I think we're seeing the end of the era where you can just tell your QB to adjust to your system, and from now on successful coaches will more and more have to mold their offensive systems around the capabilities of their QBs. And this staff just has not shown ANY of that ability.

And that even goes back to last year. McCown is doing great with NYJ this year, and that's largely because of the adjustments they've made to their system to simplify it and get guys open. Hue's route trees are okay, but nothing special, and they definitely don't seem to be the kind that can work with sub par receivers (a lot of "go get open" routes). I like the guy, I want him to succeed, but I'm questioning whether he's the kind of coach who can succeed in this new environment.

Oh, and my #1 choice for HC if Hue gets fired is the Jets OC. I think he's shown this year that he's willing and able to adapt to changing times and that's one of my most important traits on a HC checklist. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

15 hours ago, brownie man said:

^^^^^^^^^^^^

We gonna come back to this

Jesus I love your confidence lol.

[Iamcanadian]

I am still of the opinion that Hue or the FO  wanted the season tanked, so they could be sure of securing a solid franchise QB out of the 2018 draft. So they started Kizer to get that task done. He is pretty young, so why throw him to the wolves so early in his career, unless that was the goal all along.

Many high drafted rookie QB's get to sit 6-8 games before starting, to get them used to the speed of the NFL and Kizer was only a 2nd round QB. Why start him from game 1 unless your tanking the season on purpose???

It is a decent plan if your GM can actually assess talent at a high level, I am just not sold on  our drafters being solid appraisers of talent. You have to remember, last year's draft was considered to be a very good one, yet, our rookies are not exactly tearing up the league???

[brownie man]

27 minutes ago, Iamcanadian said:

I am still of the opinion that Hue or the FO  wanted the season tanked, so they could be sure of securing a solid franchise QB out of the 2018 draft. So they started Kizer to get that task done. He is pretty young, so why throw him to the wolves so early in his career, unless that was the goal all along.

Many high drafted rookie QB's get to sit 6-8 games before starting, to get them used to the speed of the NFL and Kizer was only a 2nd round QB. Why start him from game 1 unless your tanking the season on purpose???

It is a decent plan if your GM can actually assess talent at a high level, I am just not sold on  our drafters being solid appraisers of talent. You have to remember, last year's draft was considered to be a very good one, yet, our rookies are not exactly tearing up the league???

 

your delusional 

I've read alot of bad stuff on here

but that was pretty poor even for the worst of FF 

[Aztec Hammer]

More likely they took Kizer late in the 2nd because busting there wouldn't majorly hurt them. They needed a QB (we had Kessler, Osweiller and Hogan) and I imagine they thought, it's the 52nd pick and not the 1st, might as well take a swing at the big guy with the arm strength.

I'm sure they were aware of the prospects in this upcoming class. Hue Jackson is a big Southern Californi guy and would've had strong opinions on Darnold and Rosen.

In the meantime, Kizer will get on the field and let's find out if this late second round pick can show anything to suggest he is the future of the franchise. If not, we'll probably have the number one overall pick or close enough. It's not like Kessler or Osweiller would've produced a much different result. They all suck. So might as well find out what the unknown big guy second rounder can or can't do.

Alas, here we are:

Kizer completes 52% and has 5TD and 14INTs. We are 0-10.

It's worked out as expected. And we should have the number one overall pick to take the best QB in the class.

Thanks Kizer

[Kathouse Sticks]

On 11/21/2017 at 6:32 PM, dawgattack said:

Why won't it get better? Is he the first ever rookie QB to have accuracy issues? Would he be the first ever QB to improve his accuracy with experience?

Because that is what he is. His past is a great predictor of the future. He has been inaccurate every step of the way. It's his nature. Don't get me wrong. Great kid. Great physical talent. And as a Browns fan, I would love for him to succeed. But his inaccuracy and penchant for horrible plays/decisions at the most inopportune times  are too much to overcome. Just go back and watch the Jets game for examples. 

[Kathouse Sticks]

Just now, Kathouse Sticks said:

Because that is what he is. His past is a great predictor of the future. He has been inaccurate every step of the way. It's his nature. Don't get me wrong. Great kid. Great physical talent. And as a Browns fan, I would love for him to succeed. But his inaccuracy and penchant for horrible plays/decisions at the most inopportune times  are too much to overcome. Just go back and watch the Jets game for examples. 

And possibly the worst thing is, he's not learning from his mistakes. You simply cannot turn the ball over and win in the NFL. And he does it like clockwork every week. 

[brownie man]

You know whats interesting to me

Watching this Vikings game and Case Keenum at QB

No one in the world thought this guy was ever going to amount to anything

But the guy gets some experience, some time in the league, and some good talent around him 

and he looks really really good

Had legit 6 years in College before coming out and got to sit, learn, play a little in the pros

Now hes looking like hes going to take this team to the Superbowl

funny how you give a guy time and talent around him and he might play decent 

[buno67]

1 minute ago, brownie man said:

You know whats interesting to me

Watching this Vikings game and Case Keenum at QB

No one in the world thought this guy was ever going to amount to anything

But the guy gets some experience, some time in the league, and some good talent around him 

and he looks really really good

Had legit 6 years in College before coming out and got to sit, learn, play a little in the pros

Now hes looking like hes going to take this team to the Superbowl

funny how you give a guy time and talent around him and he might play decent 

I feel ya man. I love Kizer, not as much as you but man it be hard to pass up on Rosen. If Kizer has proven more I would feel comfortable but it be hard to pass up on one of these QBs

[Aztec Hammer]

25 minutes ago, brownie man said:

You know whats interesting to me

Watching this Vikings game and Case Keenum at QB

No one in the world thought this guy was ever going to amount to anything

But the guy gets some experience, some time in the league, and some good talent around him 

and he looks really really good

Had legit 6 years in College before coming out and got to sit, learn, play a little in the pros

Now hes looking like hes going to take this team to the Superbowl

funny how you give a guy time and talent around him and he might play decent 

By that logic we can pick up any journeyman vet, and as long as we have an elite roster, he'll be decent.

There's no correlation between Keenum getting experience and finally being decent half a decade down the line and the same thing being a guarantee for Kizer.

If we have the number one overall pick, you can't tell me based on what we've all seen so far that you wouldn't spend it on a QB because we have DeShone Kizer.

If you're saying we should keep Kizer on the roster as the third string, developmental guy, that's more realistic. I don't think you'd find many that would disagree.

[buno67]

Nice thing is the Browns could have a very talented back up QB.

Browns might have the #1 pick in what would be a draft with a maybe two legit franchise QBs. 

If the browns want to clean house or at least get a new HC. It would be no better time.