Do you know enough to give up on Deshone Kizer?

[MWil23]

1 minute ago, buno67 said:

Or sashi knew how bad the team was going to be and didn’t want to ruin QBs drafted #2 and 12 overall in a draft. Maybe they picked Rosen the entire time to be the pick Rosen is coming out as a projected better pick than Wentz and Watson. 

If that's the case I want him gone because he knew that we would deliberately tank 2 straight seasons.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

11 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

If that's the case I want him gone because he knew that we would deliberately tank 2 straight seasons.

Id be perfectly fine with it if it works out in the long run.

I mean, it's not as if we nuked a dynasty to slum for a little bit, we've been bad for almost 30 years.

[Aztec Hammer]

40 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If he lands the qb in April, is he doing it right then?

Just because he hasn't in his first two drafts doesn't mean he won't or can't.

Or, what if Kizer is actually good next year with an improved roster?

Some of you guys act like the the books on Kizer and Watson are finished and they are 21 and 22 years old.  A lot can happen yet.

It depends if the QB he lands is as good as Carson Wentz. If he's not, he failed. Unless we were willing to take the step down for the compensation of Corey Coleman, Spencer Drango and whoever else it was. I like a QB or two in this draft so this is the last chance saloon to get it right, for me. Fool me once, fool me twice. But third time... this is it.

The book isn't written yet, but it is definitely lining up as expected. The #2 overall specimen looks like one of the next great QBs, and the first round pick National Champion looks every bit as likely to continue his success in the pros, bar injury. Meanwhile, the late second round pick that wasn't very good in college has been the worst QB in the league in the pros.

It's early days but it's playing out to form.

[big poppa pump]

5 minutes ago, Aztec Hammer said:

It depends if the QB he lands is as good as Carson Wentz. If he's not, he failed. Unless we were willing to take the step down for the compensation of Corey Coleman, Spencer Drango and whoever else it was. I like a QB or two in this draft so this is the last chance saloon to get it right, for me. Fool me once, fool me twice. But third time... this is it.

The book isn't written yet, but it is definitely lining up as expected. The #2 overall specimen looks like one of the next great QBs, and the first round pick National Champion looks every bit as likely to continue his success in the pros, bar injury. Meanwhile, the late second round pick that wasn't very good in college has been the worst QB in the league in the pros.

It's early days but it's playing out to form.

I am with you on this.  I just don't know how THE PLAN could have been to suck for 3 years, and take the QB in year 3 of the rebuild.  You couldn't have imagined that we would have sucked this bad.  The only way I could see us passing on a QB with our first 1st round pick is if we sign Cousins.  That would tell me that they have seen enough progression with Kizer to leave him as the number 2 on this team.

My plan would be to sign, or trade for a vet, and STILL take a QB 1 or 2 overall....(or wherever we end up) and keep Kizer as my 3.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Some of you guys act like the the books on Kizer and Watson are finished and they are 21 and 22 years old.  A lot can happen yet.

I get the Wentz thing, even though I wasn't very sure of him and understand the Browns not being either even though he looked the part at the combine so maybe we dropped that ball. Watson I can't really fault them for. It would almost be like saying we should have drafted Tom Brady. Since 1974 there have been 3 quarterbacks that were the 3rd QB taken that have been really good, Kelly, Roethlisberger and Favre. There was also Cutler, Tannehill and Bridgewater who will likely go down as serviceable, otherwise a bunch of garbage over the last 40+ years. The 4th QB taken each year during that timeline is probably a little worse, although Joe Montana (Harbaugh, Carr and Cullpepper are the only other ones worth mentioning) raises the overall grade. The point is if you don't grab one of the top two you are likely just throwing darts so I won't put much blame on what secondary QB prospect we ended up with, you can get lucky but odds are they won't be better than average no matter where they are selected (Akili Smith was a 3rd QB taken and taken 3rd overall, Scott Secules was the 3rd QB taken in 88 and went in the 6th round, they both have the same legacy, nothing ).

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

14 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I get the Wentz thing, even though I wasn't very sure of him and understand the Browns not being either even though he looked the part at the combine so maybe we dropped that ball. Watson I can't really fault them for. It would almost be like saying we should have drafted Tom Brady. Since 1974 there have been 3 quarterbacks that were the 3rd QB taken that have been really good, Kelly, Roethlisberger and Favre. There was also Cutler, Tannehill and Bridgewater who will likely go down as serviceable, otherwise a bunch of garbage over the last 40+ years. The 4th QB taken each year during that timeline is probably a little worse, although Joe Montana (Harbaugh, Carr and Cullpepper are the only other ones worth mentioning) raises the overall grade. The point is if you don't grab one of the top two you are likely just throwing darts so I won't put much blame on what secondary QB prospect we ended up with, you can get lucky but odds are they won't be better than average no matter where they are selected (Akili Smith was a 3rd QB taken and taken 3rd overall, Scott Secules was the 3rd QB taken in 88 and went in the 6th round, they both have the same legacy, nothing ).

Fantastic post.

[ditchdigger]

5 hours ago, big poppa pump said:

Hue may deserve to be fired for the above-mentioned "coaching" fallacies that you present.  I have even stated that there are guys that just aren't cut out to be head coaches...(Romeo, Shurmur, Pettine)  These guys may be good coordinators, but just aren't cut out to be head coaches.  Hue very well may be that guy too.

 

Sashi, however, has not shown that he can do much more than accumulate picks, and save money on the salary cap.  You have consistently overestimated the "alleged" talent that this team has.  You conveniently refuse to admit that he had the final say when it comes to the QB picks, as well as all the others....but you are very good at calling other people's posts "idiotic"  and uninformed.  I guess the two articles that I presented, (quite sure I could find more) aren't enough to change your mind that Hue is the only one to blame for the mess we are in.  So I will quit trying to lead the horse to water. 

 

I ain't thirsty tho.

You don't think Sashi's added talent. The final roster from 2015 says otherwise.

After everything I've posted in this thread, if you are still hating on Sashi for passing on Wentz, you just want a reason to hate him enough to make one up.

[ditchdigger]

I have provided clear, verifiable and damning evidence, enough for a jury to convict Hue of criminal negligence of the QB position, but some of y'all are like "Well maybe the earth is actually flat" despite overwhelming proof of the contrary.

[big poppa pump]

6 minutes ago, ditchdigger said:

I ain't thirsty tho.

You don't think Sashi's added talent. The final roster from 2015 says otherwise.

After everything I've posted in this thread, if you are still hating on Sashi for passing on Wentz, you just want a reason to hate him enough to make one up.

I don't want to hate on Sashi.  I just don't think the roster is as talented as you do.  You are putting all the blame on the past regimes, and Hue.  I agree with you on both fronts, but I think Sashi and Depodesta have a good amount of blame to share.  You are looking at "names" and saying "wow this team actually looks good on paper"  I don't think the talent is nearly as good as you do.  If the talent was better, I don't give an ish how bad Hue is as a coach....we would have wins to show for it.

 

The jury is still out on the past two drafts, but you would have to agree that they didn't bring in much veteran leadership to help with the rebuild process.  They not only passed on Wentz, but also Watson.  In that epic trade down where we netted Corey Coleman, we not only passed up Wentz, but Jalen Ramsey, Zeke, and Bosa.   If Trubisky, and or Mahomes light it up, then it won't matter how good Myles is...it will be another miss.  They didn't get in on the Garrapolo trade, when they have the assets to do so.  They gave their rookie 2nd round pick Kizer very little to work with, which makes it awfully tough to get an accurate picture of how good he is.

 

I don't have faith that they will get it right this year.  They are about to have a top 3 pick for the third year in a row.  I am not so sure how you don't see a problem with that.  There should be a natural progression in a positive direction.  Being this bad has plenty of blame to go around.

 

[FGK]

Right now, with the information I have, it boils down to this for me.

I love our roster. I think we have three STUD LB's, two of whom were acquired for mid-round picks (either draft or trade) by this FO. I love our DL, we have a run stuffer in Shelton, an elite DE pair in Garrett and Ogbah (both healthy next year, I think that rivals Ingram/Bosa for best in the league), and we have good young depth at DT in Ogunjobi and Brantley. I love the McCourty/Taylor/BBC combo at CB, even if we need one more guy there. I love our OL as a whole. I like the Crow/Duke pair. I love Devalve/Njoku going forward as a TE duo. The only positions I hate on the team right now are WR, QB, and Safety, and we have six top 65 picks a boatload of money to fix that in the offseason.

I hate how our roster is used. We scheme to give up chunk yards with the 40 yard high safety. Our RB's haven't been used as much as they should almost the whole year. Our passing game, even when healthy at the beginning, was NOT designed to help a rookie QB. The scheme does NOT fit the current talent and it took half the season to even start adjusting. None of our offensive skill players have seemed to get better last year to this year that I can think of, outside of guys who just got healthier.

I think I want to keep everyone, give it one more go with a new QB and a year to fix WR/S, but if I'm putting the blame on folks, it's probably 75% coaching and 25% FO (mainly for the Britt signing and not at least putting bandaids on WR/FS). And if someone has to go, I think I'd vote Hue. I trust the process, I'm just not sure about the people running it.

[buno67]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

If that's the case I want him gone because he knew that we would deliberately tank 2 straight seasons.

Dude it was known to be a complete tear down and a rebuild. Browns weren’t going to be contenders either year, so they did the smart thing IMO. Sucked seeing the team winning 1 maybe 2 games in a season but that sucked just as much as seeing 3-5wins at least the Browns have set themselves up for elite talent. Garrett and the QB they Wil draft this year

[bruceb]

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

If that's the case I want him gone because he knew that we would deliberately tank 2 straight seasons.

So?

If that's what it takes to reboot, so be it.

[bruceb]

3 hours ago, big poppa pump said:

My plan would be to sign, or trade for a vet, and STILL take a QB 1 or 2 overall....(or wherever we end up) and keep Kizer as my 3.

Works for me so long as the vet isn't McCarron.

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Right now, with the information I have, it boils down to this for me.

I love our roster. I think we have three STUD LB's, two of whom were acquired for mid-round picks (either draft or trade) by this FO. I love our DL, we have a run stuffer in Shelton, an elite DE pair in Garrett and Ogbah (both healthy next year, I think that rivals Ingram/Bosa for best in the league), and we have good young depth at DT in Ogunjobi and Brantley. I love the McCourty/Taylor/BBC combo at CB, even if we need one more guy there. I love our OL as a whole. I like the Crow/Duke pair. I love Devalve/Njoku going forward as a TE duo. The only positions I hate on the team right now are WR, QB, and Safety, and we have six top 65 picks a boatload of money to fix that in the offseason.

I hate how our roster is used. We scheme to give up chunk yards with the 40 yard high safety. Our RB's haven't been used as much as they should almost the whole year. Our passing game, even when healthy at the beginning, was NOT designed to help a rookie QB. The scheme does NOT fit the current talent and it took half the season to even start adjusting. None of our offensive skill players have seemed to get better last year to this year that I can think of, outside of guys who just got healthier.

I think I want to keep everyone, give it one more go with a new QB and a year to fix WR/S, but if I'm putting the blame on folks, it's probably 75% coaching and 25% FO (mainly for the Britt signing and not at least putting bandaids on WR/FS). And if someone has to go, I think I'd vote Hue. I trust the process, I'm just not sure about the people running it.

Mostly agree.

The talent across-the-board is much better except as you noted.

I still want a football guy not named Hue with a good track record involved in this draft.

[MWil23]

I bet good money that you two who are all for intentionally losing 30+ games over a two-year period of time aren’t buying tickets and wasting your money. Fair or not the front office owes it to fans to try their best to put a quality product on the field because after all we are the ones helping pay everyone’s salary in that taxpayer funded stadium.