Browns extend CB Denzel Ward (5 years, $100.5M, $71.25M gtd)

[MWil23]

6 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

less overall

less guaranteed

better player

They're different players. Humphrey tends to move all over from the outside to the slot, excelling in coverage/tackling ability, and is utilized in various coverages, whereas Denzel Ward is a pure outside cover corner who excels in man/press man/zone and is also a willing tackler. I'd take Denzel as a pure coverage guy on the outside, especially in man/press man, whereas I'd take Humphrey if you wanted a roamer in more of a zone heavy system.

[FinSting]

Weird how well-respected and highly paid CB's don't seem to get many INT's. 

J.C. Jackson and Xavien Howard are insanely good at snagging INT's but they are not usually mentioned as all-world CB's. 

CB is a strange position to decipher. Is it scheme or the player?

[GHARMON9]

18 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

It's going to be very interesting to see how the Browns navigate the cap next year. It is very likely this deal will already project them as over the cap in 2023. I'm sure they have a plan, just not sure exactly what it is. I thought Ward would be the one they let go. A Watson restructure akin to what we've done with Mahomes could work, though it's less manageable long term on the (relatively) shorter deal.

Also, honest question, as someone who has not watched Ward substantially. Is he worth this? My impression was that Ward was good, but one of those guys who is a bigger name due to draft position than due to his pro play so far. Not like, a disappointment, but not a star either. Is he actually this good?

Same but I don't know how many Elite Cbs there are in the league anymore

 

Tre White
Jalen Ramsey
Xavier Howard
J.C Jackson
Marshawn Lattimore
James Bradberry
Jaire Alexander
Denzel Ward
Marlon Humphrey

 

[Packerraymond]

The total money is fine, but if the Browns could stop guaranteeing 75-100% of the total value of contracts, that'd be great.

[Kiwibrown]

2 hours ago, FinSting said:

Weird how well-respected and highly paid CB's don't seem to get many INT's. 

J.C. Jackson and Xavien Howard are insanely good at snagging INT's but they are not usually mentioned as all-world CB's. 

CB is a strange position to decipher. Is it scheme or the player?

It seems like their is an element of gambling with the guys that get ints. The best corner of our generation didnt generate many ints in Revis. 

Also the truly great corners get targeted a lot less.

And there are the other part of it, some top corners dont even get that many PBU either, they run guys away from the ball. 

Some pretty middle of the road corners can have a lot of PBU and a few ints.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

4 hours ago, MWil23 said:

They're different players. Humphrey tends to move all over from the outside to the slot, excelling in coverage/tackling ability, and is utilized in various coverages, whereas Denzel Ward is a pure outside cover corner who excels in man/press man/zone and is also a willing tackler. I'd take Denzel as a pure coverage guy on the outside, especially in man/press man, whereas I'd take Humphrey if you wanted a roamer in more of a zone heavy system.

So my point exactly - we're paying less (albeit slightly less) for a guy that does more at a higher level. That's why I love it.

[Kiwibrown]

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

So my point exactly - we're paying less (albeit slightly less) for a guy that does more at a higher level. That's why I love it.

The margin of difference isnt that great imo

[candyman93]

2 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

The total money is fine, but if the Browns could stop guaranteeing 75-100% of the total value of contracts, that'd be great.

Browns are planting seeds for the Bengals to lose Burrow.

 

CONSPIRACY

[MWil23]

14 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

So my point exactly - we're paying less (albeit slightly less) for a guy that does more at a higher level. That's why I love it.

And what I'm SAYING is, Denzel Ward is MUCH BETTER as a true coverage lockdown corner, which is what Cleveland runs. Humphrey is at his best in zone, as Baltimore doesn't run as many man coverage principles.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

4 hours ago, MWil23 said:

And what I'm SAYING is, Denzel Ward is MUCH BETTER as a true coverage lockdown corner, which is what Cleveland runs. Humphrey is at his best in zone, as Baltimore doesn't run as many man coverage principles.

DO you actually have these numbers because I can't find them for 2021.

[NateDawg]

12 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

DO you actually have these numbers because I can't find them for 2021.

I personally don’t have the numbers but did Humphrey have a down year last year? You obviously watched him more than I did. It seems like every time I watched him, he was getting burnt. Going a couple years back, he seemed really solid. 

As for this signing, I’m good with it. As stated, the contracts that are given out are basically based on timing and when that person is up. The next stud at cornerback will have a higher contract then Ward, etc. Lattimore got $19M, Ramsey signs for $20M, Ward gets $100k more then Ramsey. The next guy will get more than Ward, and the list continues from there. Ward is a top 5 CB and about as good in man as there is. 

[VigilantZombie]

21 hours ago, FinSting said:

Weird how well-respected and highly paid CB's don't seem to get many INT's. 

J.C. Jackson and Xavien Howard are insanely good at snagging INT's but they are not usually mentioned as all-world CB's. 

CB is a strange position to decipher. Is it scheme or the player?

The thing about INTs and this is my personal point of view, if you can keep Receivers from catching the ball with deflections, I can live without the Ints, the Ints are just icing. 

[MWil23]

13 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

DO you actually have these numbers because I can't find them for 2021.

On Ward? I mean, a handful of coverage metrics and completion % when targeted have been posted here already and he’s Top 3 in the league, above Humphrey.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

4 hours ago, NateDawg said:

I personally don’t have the numbers but did Humphrey have a down year last year? You obviously watched him more than I did. It seems like every time I watched him, he was getting burnt. Going a couple years back, he seemed really solid. 

Yeah he was pretty bad last year before getting hurt.

3 hours ago, MWil23 said:

On Ward? I mean, a handful of coverage metrics and completion % when targeted have been posted here already and he’s Top 3 in the league, above Humphrey.

No I mean on how much the Browns vs. Ravens play man coverage. I don't think it's accurate to say we don't play a lot of man at all, especially considering we were like #1 or #2 in blitz% the past several years with Wink here.

[MWil23]

8 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

No I mean on how much the Browns vs. Ravens play man coverage. I don't think it's accurate to say we don't play a lot of man at all, especially considering we were like #1 or #2 in blitz% the past several years with Wink here.

The Ravens were 2nd in the league last year in man on the outside and Cleveland’s base is a Cover 3.

However, it absolutely depends on where Humphrey lines up and whether or not he’s in the slot and they’re 1 or 2 high as a safety look.

Cover 3 still has a lot of match/man/press principles to a single receiver side opposite of twins or trips, where typically Ward is used.