vegas492 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Rainmaker90 said: I didn’t say you did, idt I implied it either but if I did I apologize. as for the help , meh that generally isn’t our style to give our LTs too much help, but I’m sure he’s gotten some like everyone else . I’m all for the wait and see approach. But saying ‘ don't feel like he's ever going to be in that top 10 range.‘ Is different than waiting and seeing Do you feel the same way about Love? They’ve both taken off about the same time . If Walker was even average the last half , I guarantee Dallas/SF/KC/ Det etc would have gotten much better pass rush . And if you’re giving Tom all the credit, they most certainly would’ve moved Parsons, Bosa, Jones, Hutchinson over to Walker. He got a ton of help along the way. Most of it was due to MLF/Love getting the ball out quickly and with anticipation/rhythm. Bosa certainly was moved around to find the weakest tackle. Dallas never moved Parsons from the right side. From what I saw of them, he rushed over C, RG, RT. That left side is Lawrence's side. Don't know about Hutch as I was unable to watch that game. Tom had like a 9.6 RAS score. He's just a better athlete than Walker. Tom is just better at everything. Better base strength, better drive skills, mirror skills....etc. That isn't knocking Walker. I said it right after he played his first pre-season game as a rookie, kid looks the part of an NFL tackle. Nothing has changed. Kid got better with reps. That is exactly what you want to happen. Here's what also needs to happen. We need to keep drafting tackles and push the starter. Just like at guard. I'll never complain about drafting offensive linemen. You think I'm bagging Walker. I. Am. Not. Nor is it controversial to say that I don't see a top 10 tackle in him. If you look at the league, there are a lot of really good looking tackles right now. At best Walker is the 3rd best LT in our division. Minnesota ain't swapping us Darrisaw for him. Decker is better than him and soon Sewell with have that LT spot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainmaker90 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 18 minutes ago, vegas492 said: He got a ton of help along the way. Most of it was due to MLF/Love getting the ball out quickly and with anticipation/rhythm. Bosa certainly was moved around to find the weakest tackle. Dallas never moved Parsons from the right side. From what I saw of them, he rushed over C, RG, RT. That left side is Lawrence's side. Don't know about Hutch as I was unable to watch that game. Tom had like a 9.6 RAS score. He's just a better athlete than Walker. Tom is just better at everything. Better base strength, better drive skills, mirror skills....etc. That isn't knocking Walker. I said it right after he played his first pre-season game as a rookie, kid looks the part of an NFL tackle. Nothing has changed. Kid got better with reps. That is exactly what you want to happen. Here's what also needs to happen. We need to keep drafting tackles and push the starter. Just like at guard. I'll never complain about drafting offensive linemen. You think I'm bagging Walker. I. Am. Not. Nor is it controversial to say that I don't see a top 10 tackle in him. If you look at the league, there are a lot of really good looking tackles right now. At best Walker is the 3rd best LT in our division. Minnesota ain't swapping us Darrisaw for him. Decker is better than him and soon Sewell with have that LT spot. I think you’re ignoring the upside more than anything. If he plays like he did the final half of the year he’s going to be a very good player. A strength that most teams would covet. Even watching a few clips, he didn’t get much help. Of course if Bosa is going to go inside the guard is going to assist . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Rainmaker90 said: I think you’re ignoring the upside more than anything. If he plays like he did the final half of the year he’s going to be a very good player. A strength that most teams would covet. Even watching a few clips, he didn’t get much help. Of course if Bosa is going to go inside the guard is going to assist . People who like to pick fly $hit out of pepper would find things to pick apart. For a 7th round draft pick to play like he's playing is extremely fortunately. Massive upside for our two young tackles going forward. Edited January 23 by Old Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zycho32 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 A lot of mainstream mocks are going to have the Packers pick someone at T in the first two days, if not in the first round. 6th/7th Rounders do not get the benefit of the doubt until several seasons of consistent high-end success. This is going to be the "Packers should've picked a WR in the 1st" for the next year or two. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 4 minutes ago, Zycho32 said: A lot of mainstream mocks are going to have the Packers pick someone at T in the first two days, if not in the first round. 6th/7th Rounders do not get the benefit of the doubt until several seasons of consistent high-end success. This is going to be the "Packers should've picked a WR in the 1st" for the next year or two. almost all of us on here were in the OT in 1st camp until a month or two ago as well so agreed it's going to take longer for those far less plugged in to catch up. OT is still very much a possibility. OT3 is a valuable position and if Bakh is gone, it's still a significant need. Just not quite as urgent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zycho32 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 4 minutes ago, incognito_man said: almost all of us on here were in the OT in 1st camp until a month or two ago as well so agreed it's going to take longer for those far less plugged in to catch up. OT is still very much a possibility. OT3 is a valuable position and if Bakh is gone, it's still a significant need. Just not quite as urgent Think Walker becomes the new template for OT3 drafting strategy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Just now, Zycho32 said: Think Walker becomes the new template for OT3 drafting strategy? spot the humper draft the humper profit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Rainmaker90 said: I think you’re ignoring the upside more than anything. If he plays like he did the final half of the year he’s going to be a very good player. A strength that most teams would covet. Even watching a few clips, he didn’t get much help. Of course if Bosa is going to go inside the guard is going to assist . Help can mean a lot of things. I didn't know that I had to spell it out. He got a ton of help from MLF and Love in how they called the game and in how quickly the ball came out. It isn't just about doubles or chips. 151. That's a number I hope you remember. 151. Any idea as to what that means? It's the number of snaps that Yosh Nijman played on the offensive line since week 10. You know he was taking reps from Walker, right? Granted a few of those came against the 49ers when Tom went down. But, I'll let that resonate for a moment. Walker wasn't even a full time starter. He was job sharing, just like JRJ was job sharing. So you gotta ask yourself. Why did the coaches job share that position? With JRJ it can be a logical thought process about wanting to get the young kid reps as the older vets contract was running out. But Nijman is a free agent at the end of the season. For crying out loud, we've got guys on here discussing how much Walker is worth on a next contract or via a trade. And the fact is, he was job sharing the LT position during our run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Old Guy said: People who like to pick fly $hit out of pepper would find things to pick apart. For a 7th round draft pick to play like he's playing is extremely fortunately. Massive upside for our two young tackles going forward. Yah, and people forget that Walker was job sharing the LT duties during our run. There's certainly upside there, no doubt. Also? I wouldn't risk our offense or Love's health on him just yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 7 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Yah, and people forget that Walker was job sharing the LT duties during our run. There's certainly upside there, no doubt. Also? I wouldn't risk our offense or Love's health on him just yet. I don't think he was rotating with NIjman for the last several weeks at a minimum. Runyan and Ryhan continued to rotate right through the playoffs. We've been risking Love's health on him for the vast majority of the year. I do think I'm taking a tackle with the Jets pick if there is a guy their worthy that pick. Never have enough good offensive linemen. Also, no offensive line gets thought an entire season without a guy missing a game or two at the least. I also remember many here thought Nijman might garner a contract from another team when we slapped a 2nd round tender on him. I may or may not have been one of them. LOL Not sure he'll be on many people's radar as a 3rd swing tackle in free agency. Edited January 23 by Old Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 minute ago, Old Guy said: Pretty much what we've been doing for the year, sans some rotation with Nijman. I do think I'm taking a tackle with the Jets pick if there is a guy their worthy that pick. Never have enough good offensive linemen. Also, no offensive line gets thought an entire season without a guy missing a game or two at the least. I also remember many here thought Nijman might garner a contract from another team when we slapped a 2nd round tender on him. I may or may not have been one of them. LOL Not sure he'll be on many people's radar as a 3rd swing tackle in free agency. Without looking up PFF stuff, I feel like Walker got better with that time share with Nijman. Course, the whole offense hit it's stride and everyone looked better. But YES. Let's draft a tackle or two. Versatile guys. I don't know if Tenuta (sp) or Jones can play LT. Likely that Bakh is gone. So let's shore it up with one of those first three picks. OT looks nice and deep, might as well snag a quality guy. Along the way? Keep rooting that Walker will cost us mega bucks in an extension or get a Tunsil like return via trade. Nothing wrong with any of that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantyWrestler Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 20 hours ago, HighCalebR said: I just went back through the game. Idk what there is to disagree about. My whole point is we can hope and pray Walker develops and put all our eggs in that basket knowing there are shortcomings or we can look for upgrades. Walker's in Love's lap too much to just grant him starter next year. There's plenty that can be upgraded. He's McKivitz, he's Braxton Jones. Nobody is cutting him but we should be looking for upgrades if they're available. If I draft a round 1 tackle I'm still having a legit competition vs Walker. Walker can play but there's some obvious weak spots to the game and if you really watch him you see them. There's no agree to disagree there. They did play pretty dang well. The gameplan is solid for what we have in house and they gelled very well late in the year. I'm not knocking that. Having Tom makes having Walker very viable. Walker got PLENTY of help this game. Some of our better long developing plays he doesnt even end up blocking anyone. First play attacks the inside move nicely. Second play just because Nijman gets absolutely dog walked here doesnt make Walkers play great. playing straight pro against bull rush 2.38 seconds and hes into the launch point. Yes he hasnt given up sacks, Jordan has been playing with GREAT anticipation and ripping the ball. Nobody gets home that fast, even an untouched Bosa doesnt get there. Like do you have gamepass and rewatch? I'll share with you the time stamps of the plays with my concerns and then we can agree to disagree if you still feel like Walker is "lights out". But if we're just basing it all off PFF and some stats I've just gotta say you're wrong. I'm wholly prepared to say agree to disagree about him developing. I don't think it's something he can fix. If you think he can, ive moved past being adamant on that point. Hopefully he does! I agree with most of what you said. 2.38 to the QB is not great but Watt averages between 2.5 & 2.6 to the QB through his career. The bold is where I disagree. Bak was no better his first year. He really improved his anchor and run blocking, which early on, was an issue with him. Walker needs more strength in his lower body and to improve his bend a little and he's there. As for needing more depth at OT, heck yeah, i totally agree with you there and would love to hedge my bet with Walker as well. I just don't feel it's a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 4 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Without looking up PFF stuff, I feel like Walker got better with that time share with Nijman. Course, the whole offense hit it's stride and everyone looked better. But YES. Let's draft a tackle or two. Versatile guys. I don't know if Tenuta (sp) or Jones can play LT. Likely that Bakh is gone. So let's shore it up with one of those first three picks. OT looks nice and deep, might as well snag a quality guy. Along the way? Keep rooting that Walker will cost us mega bucks in an extension or get a Tunsil like return via trade. Nothing wrong with any of that. I'm not holding my breath on those two. They are clearly worse than Nijman at this point or they would have been elevated over him. Nijman was not good, so hard to imagine either of these two becoming any more than bottom end of the roster/practice squad guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighCalebR Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 8 minutes ago, MantyWrestler said: I agree with most of what you said. 2.38 to the QB is not great but Watt averages between 2.5 & 2.6 to the QB through his career. The bold is where I disagree. Bak was no better his first year. He really improved his anchor and run blocking, which early on, was an issue with him. Walker needs more strength in his lower body and to improve his bend a little and he's there. As for needing more depth at OT, heck yeah, i totally agree with you there and would love to hedge my bet with Walker as well. I just don't feel it's a must. David was much better.. Go back and watch. Tom is much closer to what young bakh was. Bakh was never a waist bender. Yes. I don't think he can bend better. I don't think he can improve that. It's been the same since college. The knees have only been more banged up since then. Well agree to disagree about that. Thats where this whole conversation started. Ive gone full circle two or three times now with a couple different posters. I've gotta be better about letting these comments just fly by. That's on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Guy Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 minutes ago, HighCalebR said: David was much better.. Go back and watch. Tom is much closer to what young bakh was. Bakh was never a waist bender. Yes. I don't think he can bend better. I don't think he can improve that. It's been the same since college. The knees have only been more banged up since then. Well agree to disagree about that. Thats where this whole conversation started. Ive gone full circle two or three times now with a couple different posters. I've gotta be better about letting these comments just fly by. That's on me. Has he had knee injuries in the past which is why you don't think he can improve? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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