Top 5 TE to start the 2022 Season

[TheRealMcCoy]

3 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Average? That’s a straw man, he LITERALLY said he’s a good TE. You’re the one confusing “good” with average.

 

He's a top 5 TE right now so if that is good, then sure.

[diamondbull424]

Just now, TheRealMcCoy said:

He's a top 5 TE right now so if that is good, then sure.

He’s not #5 in yards and #17 in TDs scored. Sounds good to me too….

[TheRealMcCoy]

Just now, diamondbull424 said:

He’s not #5 in yards and #17 in TDs scored. Sounds good to me too….

Ah I see we have another box score scout 🤓

[Soggust]

19 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Kittle was tied with Goedert in PFF's grading as 2nd best TE in the league only behind Mark Andrews, but sure he's in the same tier as Gronk who is on his last legs and Schultz who doesn't do anything overly impressive and is a chain moving guy who just got a **** ton of targets in a pass happy offense.

Like I said I don't have any interest in discussing Goedert in depth with someone who doesn't use context and just reads stat pages. This isn't fantasy football.

Clyde Edwards Helaire is a top 5 RB, I don't care what the stats say. I have watched every single snap and unless you have as well, you can't tell me otherwise.

Or actually - here's a better one -> 

Rashad Fenton is a top 5 CB because he was graded alongside Jalen Ramsey according to PFF and above Tre'Davious White and Jaire Alexander.

Don't bother responding unless you have done advanced film study on Fenton.

[TheRealMcCoy]

Just now, Soggust said:

Clyde Edwards Helaire is a top 5 RB, I don't care what the stats say. I have watched every single snap and unless you have as well, you can't tell me otherwise.

Or actually - here's a better one -> 

Rashad Fenton is a top 5 CB because he was graded alongside Jalen Ramsey according to PFF and above Tre'Davious White and Jaire Alexander.

Don't bother responding unless you have done advanced film study on Fenton.

Except you can see on film how meh CEH is. Same isn’t true for Goedert.

Nice try.

[TheRealMcCoy]

Like yeah… PFF put Goedert 23rd in their top 101 players in the NFL without big time targets and stats cause he’s on par with Gronk with one foot in retirement and Schultz who is a solid TE, but nothing special.

Hes literally right behind Justin Jefferson at 21st and just ahead of Ja’Marr Chase at 26th, Travis Kelce at 32nd, and Tyreek Hill at 33rd.

Y’all crack me up. 😂😂😭👌🏻

[diamondbull424]

6 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Except you can see on film how meh CEH is. Same isn’t true for Goedert.

Nice try.

No that’s what YOU see. I see a dynamic 

 

1 minute ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Like yeah… PFF put Goedert 23rd in their top 101 players in the NFL without big time targets and stats cause he’s on par with Gronk with one foot in retirement and Schultz who is a solid TE, but nothing special.

Hes literally right behind Justin Jefferson at 21st and just ahead of Ja’Marr Chase at 26th, Travis Kelce at 32nd, and Tyreek Hill at 33rd.

Y’all crack me up. 😂😂😭👌🏻

Yeah that list sounds legit.

[Soggust]

Just now, TheRealMcCoy said:

Like yeah… PFF put Goedert 23rd in their top 101 players in the NFL without big time targets and stats cause he’s on par with Gronk with one foot in retirement and Schultz who is a solid TE, but nothing special.

Hes literally right behind Justin Jefferson at 21st and just ahead of Ja’Marr Chase at 26th, Travis Kelce at 32nd, and Tyreek Hill at 33rd.

Y’all crack me up. 😂😂😭👌🏻

I don't think this is making the point you think it is lol. 

This is more of an indictment on PFF than it is supporting Goedert. Unless, you are ready to also make the argument that Goedert is a better player than Justin Herbert or Travis Kelce or a zillion other names on the list.

[TheRealMcCoy]

3 minutes ago, Soggust said:

I don't think this is making the point you think it is lol. 

This is more of an indictment on PFF than it is supporting Goedert. Unless, you are ready to also make the argument that Goedert is a better player than Justin Herbert or Travis Kelce or a zillion other names on the list.

Nah it does. He’s way better than y’all are giving him credit for.

[Soggust]

Just now, TheRealMcCoy said:

Nah it does. He’s way better than y’all are giving him credit for.

I'll stray from the back and forth and ask you legitimately (i.e. this is in good faith and I'm not setting you up here) -

======================

Do you anticipate Goedert putting up over 1000 next year with the same QB, but with AJ Brown and Smith also there?

Because if he does, I'll concede he's a top 5 TE.

But if he puts up 600-850ish again in his 5th year, are we going to say that it's only because he has a bad QB or he has great WRs taking away targets? What if he does that the next few years? What if he never tops 1000 the rest of his career?

Is there any possible scenario in the upcoming season that would convince you he's not a top 5 TE? 

[TheRealMcCoy]

2 minutes ago, Soggust said:

Do you anticipate Goedert putting up over 1000 next year with the same QB, but with AJ Brown and Smith also there?

Depends how much Hurts can improve from his first year as a starter and how much we pass it. We were the most run heavy team in the league last year even despite us passing the ball between like 30-50 times the first 7 weeks of the season. 

I still don't think Hurts should be passing the ball that much this year unless he's improved a good amount, but I do anticipate that Sirianni wants to throw the ball more than he did last year.

You're right that AJ Brown is gonna get a lot of targets too, so I can't be sure he'll put up a top 5 receiving stats season next year. If we would've got a Russell Wilson and not brought in AJ Brown (cause of Wilson's contract) then yeah the targets and passing attempts would definitely be there for something like a top 3-5 season stats wise.

5 minutes ago, Soggust said:

But if he puts up 600-850ish again in his 5th year, are we going to say that it's only because he has a bad QB or he has great WRs taking away targets? What if he does that the next few years? What if he never tops 1000 the rest of his career?

Eh.. if he plays a full season I don't anticipate anything sub 800 yards. 

I've already said in this thread that I kinda regret the Eagles taking Goedert cause we've squandered his early career. We drafted him in 2018 after Wentz's 2017 "MVP type" (I don't believe he should've been in consideration over Brady...) season and he was never really that good after that. Ertz ate up a lot of the targets (156 in 2018 and 135 in 2019). It was pretty obvious even before the 2020 season that we should've traded away Ertz whose athleticism was starting to decline to allow Goedert a chance to flourish, but we held on too long and traded him into the 2021 season and got minimal return, but that's just me venting and not directly related to the Goedert convo lol. 

He was actually asked about the targets at a recent presser:

Quote

“Maybe we’ll be throwing the ball a little bit more,” Goedert said. “I’m not too worried about my targets. (Brown) came from a heavy run team, we were a heavy run team last year. I don’t think anybody’s worried about that.”

I like that he's unselfish, but I wish he would've got drafted to a better landing spot to start his career where he could've hit the ground running as TE1. He's a great player that has been hampered by situation. Whether you guys want to believe that or not isn't up to me.

I will say that one area he needs to clean up going into this year was the drops. He only had 1 drop as a rookie and 1 drop in 2020, but his 5 drops he had in 2019 popped back up again with 6 this past year. It's like he let some easy ones get him.

But, overall he's a physical specimen who is crazy good after the catch, a great blocker and good route runner. 

[Jeezla]

2 hours ago, Soggust said:

Are you suggesting now that you didn't make that claim or are you really going to try to make the case that Goedert is better because Waller was injured for half a year? 

You're right the whole world is probably wrong and it's not you being blinded by Eagles-colored glasses.

If they don't factor blocking into their rankings, they are wrong. You don't rank TE's by their receiving stats (and that is obviously what all of you are doing- receiving ability, and that's it), because that's only 1/2 of their job. You factor in their receiving stats + their blocking ability, and average that out. Waller is a terrible blocker. Goedert is a good blocker and a good receiver.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Jeezla

[TheRealMcCoy]

1 minute ago, Jeezla said:

If they don't factor blocking into their rankings, they are wrong. You don't rank TE's by their receiving stats, because that's only 1/2 of their job. You factor in their receiving stats + their blocking ability, and average that out. Waller is a terrible blocker. Goedert is a good blocker and a good receiver.

Yeah, its like how a lot of people don't factor defense into the MVP race for NBA. It's weird to me.

[Jeezla]

Just now, TheRealMcCoy said:

Yeah, its like how a lot of people don't factor defense into the MVP race for NBA. It's weird to me.

Drives me crazy when people would say Harden > Kawhi or Jimmy Butler. Uh no, he sucks at half his job, even if he's a better scorer.

[Soggust]

5 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Depends how much Hurts can improve from his first year as a starter and how much we pass it. We were the most run heavy team in the league last year even despite us passing the ball between like 30-50 times the first 7 weeks of the season. 

I still don't think Hurts should be passing the ball that much this year unless he's improved a good amount, but I do anticipate that Sirianni wants to throw the ball more than he did last year.

You're right that AJ Brown is gonna get a lot of targets too, so I can't be sure he'll put up a top 5 receiving stats season next year. If we would've got a Russell Wilson and not brought in AJ Brown (cause of Wilson's contract) then yeah the targets and passing attempts would definitely be there for something like a top 3-5 season stats wise.

Eh.. if he plays a full season I don't anticipate anything sub 800 yards. 

I've already said in this thread that I kinda regret the Eagles taking Goedert cause we've squandered his early career. We drafted him in 2018 after Wentz's 2017 "MVP type" (I don't believe he should've been in consideration over Brady...) season and he was never really that good after that. Ertz ate up a lot of the targets (156 in 2018 and 135 in 2019). It was pretty obvious even before the 2020 season that we should've traded away Ertz whose athleticism was starting to decline to allow Goedert a chance to flourish, but we held on too long and traded him into the 2021 season and got minimal return, but that's just me venting and not directly related to the Goedert convo lol. 

He was actually asked about the targets at a recent presser:

I like that he's unselfish, but I wish he would've got drafted to a better landing spot to start his career where he could've hit the ground running as TE1. He's a great player that has been hampered by situation. Whether you guys want to believe that or not isn't up to me.

I will say that one area he needs to clean up going into this year was the drops. He only had 1 drop as a rookie and 1 drop in 2020, but his 5 drops he had in 2019 popped back up again with 6 this past year. It's like he let some easy ones get him.

But, overall he's a physical specimen who is crazy good after the catch, a great blocker and good route runner. 

I actually agree with every single thing you said here and really shouldn't even respond but want to clarify this -

We do believe he is a great player hampered by situation. Absolutely 100%.

I think Terry Mclaurin is also a great player hampered by situation. I still don't rank him in my top 5, regardless, however, because FAIRLY OR NOT, I can't just add 400 yards to his yearly totals. He might be top 5 talent, I just don't think he's proven (or has the resume, if that sounds better) to be a top 5 player yet, that's all.