Preseason 2022 vs Saints Post Game ANALysis

[Pugger]

On 8/20/2022 at 2:13 PM, MVP21 said:

I don't understand how anyone could have watched last night's game and not have been thoroughly impressed by Love's performance, he absolutely balled out with several big time throws. The deep shot to Toure was an absolute time, the PA to Winfree was a perfectly thrown ball, the Amari drop was placed perfectly just outside of the LBs reach, the scramble play to Taylor in the corner of the endzone might have been his most impressive throw of the game, hitting Doubs in stride with 2 dudes covering him isn't even in the top 3 throws he made. There were others too. Love played like a starting NFL QB surrounded by backup caliber players last night

Some of us may be a tad spoiled by 29 years of HOF quarterbacking.  I am eager to see Love perform this week to check out his progress for myself.

[Pugger]

On 8/20/2022 at 2:57 PM, Green19 said:

Burrow was drafted number 1, herbert number 6, Jones was drafted 15… where was Love drafted?

There are reasons for why things are the way they are… Everyone knew Love needed work. Mac and Pickett were pro ready at draft… their issue is ceiling. Loves has more potential then both of them, if he can ever unlock it. Mac and Pickett could start day one… but by year 3 or 4 are their teams going to be looking for a better option because they have Goff 2.0 or at best Cousins 2.0?

Honestly I don’t get the Jordan Love talk. He has shown up this preseason. It’s clear at this point… dude needs playing time. He understands the operation of everything, a team can justify using a whole season with Love at Starting QB to see if playing will round out his edges and become more.

I suspect a lot of this talk is because we moved up to take him when we had other issues to address in that draft.

[Pugger]

On 8/20/2022 at 3:45 PM, StatKing said:

One guy is a 4 time MVP with a super bowl ring. The other is a failed first round pick who will probably be out of the league in 4 years or if he's lucky a career backup. I get it, you're mad that Rodgers is still on the team but sit back and enjoy the ride. You'll be the one changing your tune when we get another ring this year.

Scouting collegiate QBs is not an exact science.  Only a fraction of guys taken in the first round really shine.   If Love doesn't work out it won't be the first nor the last time that has happened.  

[Pugger]

On 8/20/2022 at 5:11 PM, Sandy said:

Dallas opened the eyes of the casual fans and a bit of the national media, but that training camp he looked good. It was his first two training camps that he looked lost. 

Still, I remember that the next year this forum was split badly. I was on the pro-Rodgers side but I'd say there were a good deal more who were pro-Favre and bemoaned the fact that he had to compete with Rodgers before he got traded.

Isn't this technically Love's second full training camp?

[vegas492]

On 8/20/2022 at 9:26 PM, R T said:

I didn't quote your posting you ******* idiot. The quality of a person has nothing to do with if someone is an alpha or beta. Maybe you can get a clue when you take your walk.  

Just pointing out...anyone saying Rodgers isn't Alpha, or wasn't Alpha is being very, very critical of Rodgers.

I don't love him, but I do admire and respect him a ton on the field.

He was Alpha from Day One.  He was always working and never complained.  You have to remember that there were discussions in GB about Rodgers over Favre in Brett's last year.  He had showed that much in practice.  I remember rumors about him cutting up the #1 defense with the scout team.

He organized practices when there was that little lockout.  He was holding dinners for the o-line and others.

I mean, he did everything he absolutely could to become the leader of the team.

You really can't ask for anything else from a young QB who was playing under the shadow of an NFL great.

[vegas492]

I got to watch about 3 quarters of the game while sipping some really good bourbon.  Knob Creek 12 year (Blue Label) to be exact, so I was having a great night regardless of what happened during the game.

My observations....

• We have a lot of NFL talent on the DL.  Too much to keep.  We need to trade a DL for something else that we want.  Could be a WR (from Tampa), could be a real kick returner...bag of doughnuts....draft pick.  Point being, we are solid on the DL, I hope we get something for a quality DL that will not make our team.
• Amari Rodgers is not an NFL player.  He hasn't even flashed anything, including brains, which was supposed to be a strong trait of his.  Forget about his third round draft status, the kid doesn't have "it".  Cut bait and move on already.
• Jordan Love was....interesting....to watch.  Man, did he throw some dimes.  There were about 10 throws where I was super impressed with how the ball came out of his hands.  Placement was amazing.  And there were a handful of throws that were ducks and not placed correctly.  I thought he had a solid game, especially when he had some good young skill guys in there.  Certainly enough to remain optimistic about him.
• OL.  We have a lot of talent on the o-line as well.  And that is awesome.  Our DL and OL will make sure that this is a good team for years to come.  Game is won in the trenches and our trenches are solid.
• Caleb Jones.  I think you need to keep him on the roster.  He's too large and moves too well to expose him to waivers.  There's just not many like him, athletically, over say a guy like Hanson.
• Hanson.  I tried watching him.  Nothing stood out as positive to me.  Also...nothing stood out as negative either.  Which is a good thing for a center, I believe.  I think there are a lot of Hanson's out there.
• Tom.  Dude is a football player.  Technician.  He needs center reps and in a hurry.  If he can backup both tackles and center....  Just really impressed by him.
• Engbare.  I'm still skeptical that he's EDGE 3.  I'd prefer a vet in that slot.  But there is no denying the talent and skillset.
• Coco at LS.  Field goals were a non event, which was amazing to see.  Placement seemed good.  But... is it just me or does the ball take a little longer to get back there than what you would like?  I felt like it was a slow snap, but I could be wrong about that.
• Coverage units.  I don't know how Rich B sleeps at night.  It's still messy.  Lane discipline was lacking at times.  But, I thought I saw EFFORT.   I dunno.  Still feels like a weak spot on the team.
• McDuffie.  He made plays.  He's ILB 4.  He and Barnes look like very good backups or spot starters.  Could be the best 4 ILB's that we've had in like....forever.  
• Abernathy.  Dude looked totally into the game.  Seemed very confident and looked to initiate contact and break on plays.  He's my #3 safety.  And I wouldn't look back from there.  He's the guy.
• We had another safety, maybe the dude's name was Thomas.  Not sure.  Maybe he was #43.  Maybe.  Announcers were talking him up.  But I saw back to back plays where it was him against a RB near the LOS.  His feet stopped and he absorbed contact.  1 yard gains became 4 yard gains.  Apprehensive.  He "caught" the RB instead of attacking him.  To me, that isn't good enough.
• I no longer care who is RB3.  We have Hill, who showed enough last year and Goodson looks legit.  One makes it, the other is PS and we are solid.
• Finally....  I know about the issues surrounding Fuller.  But, if we do not make a move and snag someone at final cuts, he's the guy I'm looking at after week one to add to the roster.  That way his contract is easier to get out of in case those issues crop up.  But we need another veteran WR with some legit NFL traits.  Even if it comes with baggage.

[pgwingman]

17 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

• Amari Rodgers is not an NFL player.  He hasn't even flashed anything, including brains, which was supposed to be a strong trait of his.  Forget about his third round draft status, the kid doesn't have "it".  Cut bait and move on already.

 

• Engbare.  I'm still skeptical that he's EDGE 3.  I'd prefer a vet in that slot.  But there is no denying the talent and skillset.

I wasn't able to watch the game, but I read the entire thread and I'm curious about these two points.

Is Amari so bad that you would cut him before the start of his second year? When he was drafted the Packers claimed they thought about taking him with their second round pick. I've only ever heard of one 3rd round pick getting cut that early (Jachai Polite), and it was just a plain old whiff of a draft evaluation. Is he really that bad or are we just doing our usual thing where we all obsess on something during the summer downtime?

 

What's holding you back on Enagbare? He apparently leads rookies in pass rushes.

[ThatJerkDave]

8 hours ago, Sandy said:

What I've found quite interesting is that there are a selection of posters (sincerely not you) that have been spending a lot of energy trying to convince everyone that Winfree will be cut, it's Kumerow all over again, there's nothing special about him, etc, and complain about how people are even discussing it.

The reason most people probably like Winfree is because he's an underdog. People like underdogs. So we root for Goodson and Heflin and Hamilton, and sure, we root for Winfree too. It's not because we want something to be unhappy about, but because it feels good when we see the underdog win.

The people who repeatedly try to squash any discussion about the back end of the roster who arent just looking to be unhappy. They are unhappy and want to see others be unhappy too.

This rant isn't directed at you, just been something I've been seeing happening a lot on here lately from a select few posters.

I definitely hear that too.  

 

I'm actually having a difficult time with this one.  By merit, he should absolutely make this team.  He has done everything right, and has shown up every time he has gotten an opportunity.  He also seems like a really good dude.  But, I don't think he is as good as Geronimo Allison, or Jake Kumerow, or Allen Lazard.  And the roster numbers just don't work, in my opinion.  And I just can't help thinking that Rico Gafford or Kiondre Thomas would offer more to special teams as well. 

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, Pugger said:

Some of us may be a tad spoiled by 29 years of HOF quarterbacking.  I am eager to see Love perform this week to check out his progress for myself.

You haven't seen these games, Pugger?

Love looks a lot more poised than he did last year.  He isn't lighting it up, but it looks a lot more natural.  

[vegas492]

29 minutes ago, pgwingman said:

I wasn't able to watch the game, but I read the entire thread and I'm curious about these two points.

Is Amari so bad that you would cut him before the start of his second year? When he was drafted the Packers claimed they thought about taking him with their second round pick. I've only ever heard of one 3rd round pick getting cut that early (Jachai Polite), and it was just a plain old whiff of a draft evaluation. Is he really that bad or are we just doing our usual thing where we all obsess on something during the summer downtime?

 

What's holding you back on Enagbare? He apparently leads rookies in pass rushes.

Amari Rodgers.  To me, he is an easy cut at this point and time.  He has shown no flashes of anything that makes him an NFL receiver.  He's short.  He's not quick.  He's not fast.  Suspect hands.  Suspect routes.  Suspect brains.  And brains were supposed be a plus on him.  The nail in the coffin was him fielding a punt inside his 5 yard line.  I do not see upside there.  I do not see "moldable" clay.  I see a short WR with zero plus athletic traits.  Yah, it was a whiff of a pick.  I'm usually one to give higher picks time, and we've seen what time does for WR's, but he has shown zero plus traits on the field to deserve more time.

I compare that to Toure.  A lower pick.  Larger athlete.  Looks faster.  I'd rather invest time into him than a guy like Amari.

Even Amari's jet sweeps are slow.  No quick cuts, no jukes.  There's just nothing there.  You can't tell me that a kid like Watson or Doubs wouldn't do more with those touches, given their athletic abilities.

Engbare.  There is simply no denying the skillset or player right now.  None.  He's been excellent.  And he doesn't "win" with just one move.  It's multiple and he wins on the left and right side.  I do question his run play right now.   Simply because I haven't seen him do it much.  And...  he's "won" against the bottom on the roster in these pre-season games.  If it were me, I'd sign a vet to be EDGE 3 and a spot starter, while keeping Engbare as EDGE4 and more or less a rush specialist.  A role that he could excel in as a rookie.  

I can honestly say that I see Engbare as P's replacement in two years.  I'd just rather let him focus on what he does well as a rookie, which is rush the passer and leave the dirty work to a vet who has done it before.

[Haha21]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I got to watch about 3 quarters of the game while sipping some really good bourbon.  Knob Creek 12 year (Blue Label) to be exact, so I was having a great night regardless of what happened during the game.

My observations....

• We have a lot of NFL talent on the DL.  Too much to keep.  We need to trade a DL for something else that we want.  Could be a WR (from Tampa), could be a real kick returner...bag of doughnuts....draft pick.  Point being, we are solid on the DL, I hope we get something for a quality DL that will not make our team.
• Amari Rodgers is not an NFL player.  He hasn't even flashed anything, including brains, which was supposed to be a strong trait of his.  Forget about his third round draft status, the kid doesn't have "it".  Cut bait and move on already.
• Jordan Love was....interesting....to watch.  Man, did he throw some dimes.  There were about 10 throws where I was super impressed with how the ball came out of his hands.  Placement was amazing.  And there were a handful of throws that were ducks and not placed correctly.  I thought he had a solid game, especially when he had some good young skill guys in there.  Certainly enough to remain optimistic about him.
• OL.  We have a lot of talent on the o-line as well.  And that is awesome.  Our DL and OL will make sure that this is a good team for years to come.  Game is won in the trenches and our trenches are solid.
• Caleb Jones.  I think you need to keep him on the roster.  He's too large and moves too well to expose him to waivers.  There's just not many like him, athletically, over say a guy like Hanson.
• Hanson.  I tried watching him.  Nothing stood out as positive to me.  Also...nothing stood out as negative either.  Which is a good thing for a center, I believe.  I think there are a lot of Hanson's out there.
• Tom.  Dude is a football player.  Technician.  He needs center reps and in a hurry.  If he can backup both tackles and center....  Just really impressed by him.
• Engbare.  I'm still skeptical that he's EDGE 3.  I'd prefer a vet in that slot.  But there is no denying the talent and skillset.
• Coco at LS.  Field goals were a non event, which was amazing to see.  Placement seemed good.  But... is it just me or does the ball take a little longer to get back there than what you would like?  I felt like it was a slow snap, but I could be wrong about that.
• Coverage units.  I don't know how Rich B sleeps at night.  It's still messy.  Lane discipline was lacking at times.  But, I thought I saw EFFORT.   I dunno.  Still feels like a weak spot on the team.
• McDuffie.  He made plays.  He's ILB 4.  He and Barnes look like very good backups or spot starters.  Could be the best 4 ILB's that we've had in like....forever.  
• Abernathy.  Dude looked totally into the game.  Seemed very confident and looked to initiate contact and break on plays.  He's my #3 safety.  And I wouldn't look back from there.  He's the guy.
• We had another safety, maybe the dude's name was Thomas.  Not sure.  Maybe he was #43.  Maybe.  Announcers were talking him up.  But I saw back to back plays where it was him against a RB near the LOS.  His feet stopped and he absorbed contact.  1 yard gains became 4 yard gains.  Apprehensive.  He "caught" the RB instead of attacking him.  To me, that isn't good enough.
• I no longer care who is RB3.  We have Hill, who showed enough last year and Goodson looks legit.  One makes it, the other is PS and we are solid.
• Finally....  I know about the issues surrounding Fuller.  But, if we do not make a move and snag someone at final cuts, he's the guy I'm looking at after week one to add to the roster.  That way his contract is easier to get out of in case those issues crop up.  But we need another veteran WR with some legit NFL traits.  Even if it comes with baggage.

I appreciate you and several others for these kind of recaps. Out here on the west coast I usually don't get to see the preseason games. My opinion is formed by the beat writers and this site's members. Really excited about the trenches. Probably the deepest we've been in a very long time.

Really disappointed to hear about Amari Rodgers. Hopefully he proves us wrong if he makes the team but I am losing faith in him. I was much higher on Amon-Ra St. Brown who went after Rodgers in 2021.

Haven't heard a whole lot on how Sean Rhyan has looked in these games. Which guess isn't a bad thing necessarily. Sounds like he is coming on a little slower than I expected after being a 3rd round pick. How did he look to you?

[TheEagle]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

I got to watch about 3 quarters of the game while sipping some really good bourbon.  Knob Creek 12 year (Blue Label) to be exact, so I was having a great night regardless of what happened during the game.

My observations....

• We have a lot of NFL talent on the DL.  Too much to keep.  We need to trade a DL for something else that we want.  Could be a WR (from Tampa), could be a real kick returner...bag of doughnuts....draft pick.  Point being, we are solid on the DL, I hope we get something for a quality DL that will not make our team.
• Amari Rodgers is not an NFL player.  He hasn't even flashed anything, including brains, which was supposed to be a strong trait of his.  Forget about his third round draft status, the kid doesn't have "it".  Cut bait and move on already.
• Jordan Love was....interesting....to watch.  Man, did he throw some dimes.  There were about 10 throws where I was super impressed with how the ball came out of his hands.  Placement was amazing.  And there were a handful of throws that were ducks and not placed correctly.  I thought he had a solid game, especially when he had some good young skill guys in there.  Certainly enough to remain optimistic about him.
• OL.  We have a lot of talent on the o-line as well.  And that is awesome.  Our DL and OL will make sure that this is a good team for years to come.  Game is won in the trenches and our trenches are solid.
• Caleb Jones.  I think you need to keep him on the roster.  He's too large and moves too well to expose him to waivers.  There's just not many like him, athletically, over say a guy like Hanson.
• Hanson.  I tried watching him.  Nothing stood out as positive to me.  Also...nothing stood out as negative either.  Which is a good thing for a center, I believe.  I think there are a lot of Hanson's out there.
• Tom.  Dude is a football player.  Technician.  He needs center reps and in a hurry.  If he can backup both tackles and center....  Just really impressed by him.
• Engbare.  I'm still skeptical that he's EDGE 3.  I'd prefer a vet in that slot.  But there is no denying the talent and skillset.
• Coco at LS.  Field goals were a non event, which was amazing to see.  Placement seemed good.  But... is it just me or does the ball take a little longer to get back there than what you would like?  I felt like it was a slow snap, but I could be wrong about that.
• Coverage units.  I don't know how Rich B sleeps at night.  It's still messy.  Lane discipline was lacking at times.  But, I thought I saw EFFORT.   I dunno.  Still feels like a weak spot on the team.
• McDuffie.  He made plays.  He's ILB 4.  He and Barnes look like very good backups or spot starters.  Could be the best 4 ILB's that we've had in like....forever.  
• Abernathy.  Dude looked totally into the game.  Seemed very confident and looked to initiate contact and break on plays.  He's my #3 safety.  And I wouldn't look back from there.  He's the guy.
• We had another safety, maybe the dude's name was Thomas.  Not sure.  Maybe he was #43.  Maybe.  Announcers were talking him up.  But I saw back to back plays where it was him against a RB near the LOS.  His feet stopped and he absorbed contact.  1 yard gains became 4 yard gains.  Apprehensive.  He "caught" the RB instead of attacking him.  To me, that isn't good enough.
• I no longer care who is RB3.  We have Hill, who showed enough last year and Goodson looks legit.  One makes it, the other is PS and we are solid.
• Finally....  I know about the issues surrounding Fuller.  But, if we do not make a move and snag someone at final cuts, he's the guy I'm looking at after week one to add to the roster.  That way his contract is easier to get out of in case those issues crop up.  But we need another veteran WR with some legit NFL traits.  Even if it comes with baggage.

Thomas is a CB, and he’s had a nice preseason. I think he’s 50/50 to make the roster.

[Spartacus]

34 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said:

I definitely hear that too.  

 

I'm actually having a difficult time with this one.  By merit, he should absolutely make this team.  He has done everything right, and has shown up every time he has gotten an opportunity.  He also seems like a really good dude.  But, I don't think he is as good as Geronimo Allison, or Jake Kumerow, or Allen Lazard.  And the roster numbers just don't work, in my opinion.  And I just can't help thinking that Rico Gafford or Kiondre Thomas would offer more to special teams as well. 

IMO Kiondre Thomas would be great to keep on this roster. I hope we see a lot of him in game 3 hopefully up against some actual draft pick WRs to see if it matches his play on the insurance salesmen. 

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Engbare.  I'm still skeptical that he's EDGE 3.  I'd prefer a vet in that slot.  But there is no denying the talent and skillset.

I have a thought about this, and perhaps I am just hyping "my guy" more than anything, so keep that in mind.  I think Jonathan Garvin is the 3rd edge guy.  He starts the games, but only plays about the same number of snaps as Quay Walker.  If he was truly fighting for a spot, he would see more snaps, and you would probably see Hamilton, Galeai, or Enagbare getting a chance to start.  Keep in mind that Garvin is in his third season, but still younger than some of the rookies.  He was also a 9 RAS guy.  

[vegas492]

36 minutes ago, Haha21 said:

I appreciate you and several others for these kind of recaps. Out here on the west coast I usually don't get to see the preseason games. My opinion is formed by the beat writers and this site's members. Really excited about the trenches. Probably the deepest we've been in a very long time.

Really disappointed to hear about Amari Rodgers. Hopefully he proves us wrong if he makes the team but I am losing faith in him. I was much higher on Amon-Ra St. Brown who went after Rodgers in 2021.

Haven't heard a whole lot on how Sean Rhyan has looked in these games. Which guess isn't a bad thing necessarily. Sounds like he is coming on a little slower than I expected after being a 3rd round pick. How did he look to you?

The only thing notable about Sean Rhyan is that he's out there in the 4'th quarter.  To me, he is a large disappointment right now.  I expected him to be better earlier and that isn't the case.   He should make the team, but to me he looks much farther behind than say a guy like Zach Tom.

No need to give up on Rhyan.  He's just on a longer developmental path in my book.  And Tom is just really, really good and stands out.

So does Caleb Jones.  

If Amari Rodgers makes the team it will be because Gute is stubborn and doesn't want to admit a third round mistake this early.  There is literally nothing to him that says he's an NFL receiver.

And...I'll say this.  I used to keep notes and get all up into pre-season games.  Now?  Just offhand observations that may or not be influenced by the amount of bourbon that I've been sipping.  Full disclosure?  There was plenty on Friday night!