incognito_man Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 It appears the last thread was accidentally locked. Continue discussion here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Not even remotely true and I hope it's a joke. I dislike Rodgers more than anybody on this entire Packers subforum and even I would say that Brady needs Belichick twice as much as Rodgers needs McCarthy. It's not a coincidence that Brady has had a bottom 15 scoring defense three times in his career and a top 10 scoring defense close to a dozen times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeightTheVillain Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 Belichick without Brady - 19.5 ppg McCarthy without Rodgers - 23 ppg And for those crying DIFFERENT ERAS!!! NFL average - 1990 to 2000 is 20.2 NFL average - 2006 to 2017 is 22.2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOnlyThing Posted November 15, 2017 Share Posted November 15, 2017 It may well be true that Belichik has needed Brady to get to 7 (and win 5) Super Bowls more than McCarthy has needed Rodgers to rack up all those NFC North titles and the 1 SB victory/appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 5 hours ago, incognito_man said: It appears the last thread was accidentally locked. Continue discussion here. Thread wasn't locked by accident. Most of the last page or so of the thread didn't have any real meaningful discussion going on, and the entire premise of the OP really didn't have anything to support the argument. I'll leave this open for now, but it needs to be meaningful discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strat1080 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 You take Rodgers off this team and its a joke. incognito is just flat out making numbers up. I have no idea where he got his numbers from in the other thread. I inquired and never got an answer from him. He told me to do some homework. He said the Packers are 18-6 in games that Aaron Rodgers has missed that the defense gave up less than 340 yards yet Aaron Rodgers hasn't even missed anywhere close to that many games and of those I'm sure the defense allowed fewer than 340 yards in very few of them. You take Brady off the Patriots and they are still a 10+ win team and a likely playoff team. I think Brady puts them over the top and makes them a Super Bowl caliber team but there is no question that the Patriots are simply a much better coached team than the Packers. That is obvious to anyone with an IQ above 90. Year after year they are exceptional at situational football in all phases of the game. You go back and just simply look up the stats year by year and the Patriots consistently have a better defense and special teams unit than the Packers. They consistently field a Top 10 scoring defense and Top 10 special teams unit to pair with Brady and the offense. In the meantime Mike McCarthy is complacent and settles for mediocrity on defense and special teams. The crap that Dom Capers has pulled over the last 8 years just wouldn't fly in New England with Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick. They might have tolerated the 2009 playoff performance but certainly not the 2011 and 2012 meltdowns. The bottom line is if Dom Capers was the Patriots DC he would have been canned five to six years ago. Mike McCarthy tolerates and accepts mediocrity. Mediocre doesn't win Super Bowls. Bill Bellichick demands excellence. Vince Lombardi was the same way. All great coaches demand excellence on offense, defense, and special teams. Year after year we are mediocre to terrible on defense and special teams. And nothing is ever done about it. Mike McCarthy does the same thing year after year and expects different results. The definition of insanity. The critical aspects of defense are red zone defense and closing out halfs. We are consistently very poor in both regards which is why Aaron Rodgers always gets blasted for having a poor record in those situations, even though he is among the Top 5 QBs statistically over the last 5 years in those situations. Our defense is a joke and just flat out can never be trusted to stop a good team when the game is on the line or to slow down an elite offense. That's just the simple truth. 2009 playoffs, 2011 playoffs, 2012 playoffs, 2015 playoffs, 2016 playoffs. We got sent home packing each of these seasons because the defense either got throttled or couldn't get a stop with the game on the line. Out of all these seasons, 2010 and 2013 were the only seasons where the defense played respectably in the last game of the season. 2014 is borderline but the defense melted down in the last 6 minutes giving up 3 TDs plus a 2 point conversion. The defense played decent in regulation in the 2015 playoff game but then looked like an absolute joke in OT giving up a massive gain to Larry Fitzgerald when there wasn't a defender within 20 yards of him. Capers defense left one of the all time great WRs completely uncovered in OT. This defense just can't be counted on in a big game with the game on the line. When we play a real team with a real offense our defense gets throttled time after time. I've just seen it too many times. Heck even Mitch Trubisky threw for almost 300 yards on us. And the Bears were a freak fumble away from putting up 23 points against us. For all those that want to downplay the defenses performance by saying they only gave up 16 points. Why can every other team hold Trubisky to well under 200 yards but then he plays us and he has his best performance of the season? This team just really isn't that good outside of Rodgers. incognito must live in some alternate universe or watch different games than I do. I saw the Patriots go 3-1 without Tom Brady and actually beat a playoff team 27-0 with their 3rd string QB. We don't beat the Houston Texans on the road last year with Brett Hundley at QB, let alone beat them 27-0. Of course they finished a season 11-5 in a season which Tom Brady had a season ending injury very early in the first game of the season. Of course everybody likes to bring up the argument that the Patriots were 16-0 the year before so even though they won 11 games they still took a step back. Of course these guys like to ignore that the Patriots went 10-6 the next year when Brady was back. So Matt Cassel won more games in 2008 than Brady did in 2009. So that's a ridiculous argument. No rational person thinks that the Patriots would have gone undefeated again with Brady in 2008. I have no idea what alternate universe incognito lives on but the Patriots clearly win more games when Brady misses time than the Packers do when Rodgers misses time. That is an irrefutable fact. I don't care what silly irrelevant exceptions incognito wants to drum up to support his ridiculous argument. The bottom line is if both the Patriots and Packers were missing Brady and Rodgers respectively, the Patriots are probably a 10+ win team and the Packers are probably a 5 win team. In four games that Brady missed last year they went 3-1 without him. So far 4 games into Rodgers being down the Packers are 1-3. The exact opposite. Again in what alternate universe is there an argument that supports Brady is more important to the Patriots than Rodgers is to the Packers? Its absolutely absurd. In 15 seasons that Tom Brady has started the Patriots have had a Top 10 ranked scoring defense 12 out of 15 games. The Packers have only generated a Top 10 scoring defense for Rodgers just 2 times in 9 seasons. That's terrible. Aaron Rodgers is being given the Dan Marino treatment. To be fair to Capers, the defense hasn't been New Orleans Saints bad for the most part but its been basically average at best. Average doesn't win Super Bowls. They don't say defense wins championships for nothing. You either have to have a Top 10 defense in the season or have a defense playing hot at the right time. Our defense can never accomplish that. They haven't been a Top 10 scoring defense since 2010 and they never really seem to be playing hot at the right time. 2014 was close though the defense did play respectably for most of the year and got hot going into the playoffs. Of course they had a meltdown in the last 6 minutes of the game though. They did play really good defensively for 90% of the game though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 37 minutes ago, strat1080 said: You take Rodgers off this team and its a joke. Honestly, this whole argument isn't exactly a real valid argument either. And I swear if I hear one person point to Matt Cassel, I'll point to the fact that Cassel was 10th in QBR that year and their 8th ranked defense in terms of opponents PPG. If they're getting top 10 play out of their backup QB and their defense, there's no reason the Patriots couldn't win 10+ games that year. IF Hundley qualified, he wouldn't even in the top 30 in QBR and the Packers defense is ranked 18th in opponents PPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeightTheVillain Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 @strat1080 Your missing the whole point here. McCarthy was the head coach for two seasons without Rodgers and has coached roughly 10 games where he was injured. In those games he has a better record as a head coach then Belichick does without Brady. I get people are gonna claim Favre, and that's a fair point but... Mike McCarthy has a better record (3-3) with Matt Flynn then Belichick did with Bernie Kosar (8-15), and Drew Bledsoe. The point is McCarthy is a damn fine coach who has won with and without Rodgers. Belichick has won 1 playoff game without Brady. McCarthy has won 3 without Rodgers. The point wasn't the Packers are more successful then the Pats. The point was that there is a reason he is second most winning active coach in the NFL and its not just because of Rodgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 2 hours ago, strat1080 said: You take Rodgers off this team and its a joke. incognito is just flat out making numbers up. I have no idea where he got his numbers from in the other thread. I inquired and never got an answer from him. He told me to do some homework. He said the Packers are 18-6 in games that Aaron Rodgers has missed that the defense gave up less than 340 yards yet Aaron Rodgers hasn't even missed anywhere close to that many games and of those I'm sure the defense allowed fewer than 340 yards in very few of them. Yeah that's not at all what I said. I said McCarthy is 18-6 in games with a QB other than Rodgers where the defense gives up fewer than 350 yards. This are verifiable on pro football reference. Feel free to check yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Damn lies and statistics. You're including games before Rodgers even saw the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted November 16, 2017 Author Share Posted November 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, Dubz41 said: Damn lies and statistics. You're including games before Rodgers even saw the field. I am comparing BB and MM, yes. They were each coaching before TB and AR respectively! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopackgonerd Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Why does it matter who needs who more? Any team that loses a good QB aren't gonna be as good without them, it's not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReadyToThump Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 Dumbest thread award, version 2.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 18 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: Not even remotely true and I hope it's a joke. I dislike Rodgers more than anybody on this entire Packers subforum and even I would say that Brady needs Belichick twice as much as Rodgers needs McCarthy. It's not a coincidence that Brady has had a bottom 15 scoring defense three times in his career and a top 10 scoring defense close to a dozen times. Why do you dislike Rodgers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunch Pail Posted November 16, 2017 Share Posted November 16, 2017 18 hours ago, HorizontoZenith said: Not even remotely true and I hope it's a joke. I dislike Rodgers more than anybody on this entire Packers subforum and even I would say that Brady needs Belichick twice as much as Rodgers needs McCarthy. It's not a coincidence that Brady has had a bottom 15 scoring defense three times in his career and a top 10 scoring defense close to a dozen times. Fight me IRL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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