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Joe Barry'd again

Old Guy

By Old Guy
in Green Bay Packers

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Joe Barry'd  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. What should the Packers do about their defensive coordinator?

    • Fire MLF, he hired him
      1
    • Fire Joe Barry immediately and get somebody who will play aggressive defense
      14
    • MLF should lay down the law with Barry to stop playing not to lose, get aggressive
      24
    • Ride it out and see what happens this season then make a decision
      3
    • Joe Barry is great
      7

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  • Poll closed on 10/14/2022 at 06:46 PM

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coachbuns

coachbuns

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Brit Pack said:

How many other coordinators in the League would have done the same, dropped 8 into coverage when the offence needs 20 yards. Sounds like a reasonable argument to me.

He was successful being aggressive .. period.  Dropping 8 into coverage when they need 20 yards has happened before in other games and that's what's so maddening.  The problem being, he's done it and failed each time he's done that.  If it worked, that would be great.  However, it HASN'T worked at all and they scored again.     

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Brit Pack

Brit Pack

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

Let me help you out.

One = 15 TDs allowed over 17 games
One = 12 TDs allowed over 17 games
One = 10 TDs allowed over 17 games

OMG!!!!!  You the one that needs help!!! So it does come down to points then???? And does it matter how a team scores points against you either rush or pass??? Noooooo. The main thing is how many points they score against you!!! Did that make sense? Yesss??

I'll give you an example, Baltimore 15.6 points per game vs Green Bay 20.3 points per game = 79.9 points over a season. That is statistically significant. 
 

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coachbuns

coachbuns

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, incognito_man said:

i don't understand why you're so defensive lol

"good enough for me"

like obviously I've been a huge Barry critic, and no, that's not good enough

but the reality is he's had this defense playing VERY WELL lately, and it's stupid to ignore that.

And it should be better if he'd be more aggressive on 3rd and 20 yards to go.  Once again he does the rush 3 guys, drop 8 into coverage and give up an easy 1st down that leads to a touchdown.  Dammit, stay aggressive!

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beekay414

beekay414

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Brit Pack said:

So it does come down to points then????
 

 

1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

Almost 2.4 points per drive, including a kneel down drive (so really 2.7) isn't improvement. That's the point we've been arguing but you guys swear up and down that because they only scored 19 points it was. Nevermind the fact that they did it in 7 drives, punted once, converted nearly 70% of their 3rd downs and averaged nearly 6 YPC. 

I'm trying to figure out how that's considered a good night for a defense?

But yeah, feigning outrage and inventing arguments and whatnot. 

 

57 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

BTW, 2.52 points per drive is the worst rate in the league (Commanders) but yet a 2.7 non-kneel down rate last night was a good night.

Good night last night because of just the 19 points allowed? I wanna know if you are able to figure out why points allowed as a standalone stat is meaningless or not or if you're going to continue to grasp your one straw.

Edited by beekay414
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Packerraymond

Packerraymond

Posted
Posted

Last 3 games:

31st in 3rd downs allowed per game, 30th in conversion %, 28th in 1st downs allowed per game, T26th red zone trips allowed, 24th in plays against (with an offense 6th in 3rd down conversion percentage, woof), 32nd in the NFL in punts per play, DEAD LAST. 

This defense either takes the ball away or gives up points in the last 3 weeks. Dangerously fine line between implosion and where they stand right now. They're keeping an efficient offense that's operating at a top 5 level in the league, on the sidelines.

"DVOA accounts for that."

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Brit Pack

Brit Pack

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, beekay414 said:

 

 

Good night last night because of just the 19 points allowed? I wanna know if you are able to figure out why points allowed as a standalone stat is meaningless or not or if you're going to continue to grasp your one straw.

You just keep on jumping. First it is ypc, then its attempts, then it yards per game, then it's rush TDs, rush TDs over a season . Each one no correlation to success. We are just clutching at meaningless stats after meaningless stat. Trying to show significance in these stats but failing each time. You have thrown out the stats but not show the effect they have. Just give it up bro.

They are also nice to have stats, great talking points maybe but points allowed supersedes all of these. What's the point in being like Carolina statistically better in yards, at number 6 but 29th in points given up.

If we are talking about yesterday, Spags with his better rated defence went against our novice offence and couldn't do what Barry did against a far more mature and statistically better offence with a beast of a RB, the GOAT of TEs, the QB GOAT. Everything you are upset with Barry with Spags did but worse. Long drives, converting 3rd downs, that 4th and 2nd to Doubs and he allowed an inferior team to do that to him. 

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incognito_man

incognito_man

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Packerraymond said:

What are we arguing then? What has Joe Barry changed? He still sits back in 2 high and his run defense cant stop anything. We're giving props for last night? That was a hell of a time for LVN to step up and get back in the game. Incredible read and ball skills by Nixon. Gary, Preston and Clark have been elite the last 3 weeks. 

We're calling the same scheme and our players are winning in a clutch moment, but you can see plain as day by the lack of possessions under 6 plays last night that this scheme has a very very fine line between success and fail and it usually requires a great INDIVIDUAL effort from a play to cover up for the fact that a guy is probably open or going to run over us somewhere.

This reads very much like an argument of "the reason the defense wants good previously was because our players weren't playing as well as they could/should have been".

Doesn't it?

Is your argument that the only difference is that our players are suddenly playing better (despite attrition in the secondary)?

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beekay414

beekay414

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Brit Pack said:

You just keep on jumping. First it is ypc, then its attempts, then it yards per game, then it's rush TDs, rush TDs over a season . Each one no correlation to success. We are just clutching at meaningless stats after meaningless stat. Trying to show significance in these stats but failing each time. You have thrown out the stats but not show the effect they have. Just give it up bro.

They are also nice to have stats, great talking points maybe but points allowed supersedes all of these. What's the point in being like Carolina statistically better in yards, at number 6 but 29th in points given up.

If we are talking about yesterday, Spags with his better rated defence went against our novice offence and couldn't do what Barry did against a far more mature and statistically better offence with a beast of a RB, the GOAT of TEs, the QB GOAT. Everything you are upset with Barry with Spags did but worse. Long drives, converting 3rd downs, that 4th and 2nd to Doubs and he allowed an inferior team to do that to him. 

You didn't answer the question and the stats I continue to bring up tie directly into what I just asked you. I didn't ask about how our offense performed vs Spags. I asked about how your boy did. You're really ******* good at deflecting, I'll give you that.

I'm sorry that you can't understand how stats work for an individual team without the need to bring outside teams into the argument (though I've continued to tell you that what *insert any team here* does has no bearing on how Joe Barry performs but you can't get that through your English head). And to think, I'm concerned about the current state of the American education system lmao.

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Rainmaker90

Rainmaker90

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said:

Yep .. a little over 20 years now.  This has been a frustrating go this year so far .. expected them to be fairly serious contenders this year.

We all did. We have a pretty active thread on the other sports page. Idt I’ve seen you on the thread 

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incognito_man

incognito_man

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, beekay414 said:

Almost 2.4 points per drive, including a kneel down drive (so really 2.7) isn't improvement. That's the point we've been arguing but you guys swear up and down that because they only scored 19 points it was. Nevermind the fact that they did it in 7 drives, punted once, converted nearly 70% of their 3rd downs and averaged nearly 6 YPC. 

I'm trying to figure out how that's considered a good night for a defense?

But yeah, feigning outrage and inventing arguments and whatnot. 

DVOA accounts for points per drive

Can you explain why the improvement in DVOA doesn't matter for this defense?

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