big_palooka Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 8 hours ago, NYRaider said: Cap hit for Jimmy / Jacobs / Adams / Renfrow / Meyers = $67M Cap hit for our entire defense combined = $66M This isn't a problem if they had drafted well on defense the last 5 years and had anyone to extend outside Maxx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 42 minutes ago, big_palooka said: This isn't a problem if they had drafted well on defense the last 5 years and had anyone to extend outside Maxx. Jimmy, Adams, and Meyers were three guys they added via trade/free agency and Jacobs hasn't even been extended yet. They've had no issues allocating resources to acquire offensive talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: This isn't a problem if they had drafted well on defense the last 5 years and had anyone to extend outside Maxx. yeah tough to use the dont draft well excuse for the D, when we also dont draft well on O . . . They have no problems going out and getting guys they want on O . . . For an Offensive minded coach, it just blows my mind. . . go spend on D, where you need more help, as its not your speciality. You cant spend the most on O, have a good O and then call yourself an offensive genius lol Exact problem I had with Gruden. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: Jimmy, Adams, and Meyers were three guys they added via trade/free agency and Jacobs hasn't even been extended yet. They've had no issues allocating resources to acquire offensive talent. I think you all are grossly overrating this FA class: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/defense/all/ The money thrown at the top tier guys was absurd. Who on that list did you want and would have changed the trajectory of the defense? I get you want to get some talent, but the issue as long as I've seen is the lack of star talent on the roster. If you have more of those guys at every level, then you can plug in FAs. But relying on FA to build a defense does what? Gets you a bunch of role players akin to the Gruden years that give you substandard results. If Gruden/Mayock hadn't busted on so many draft picks, this wouldn't be a discussion. My advise. Draft better. We've seen the Raiders try to rebuild via FA forever and it hasn't worked and won't until they draft and develop talent better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I think you all are grossly overrating this FA class: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/defense/all/ The money thrown at the top tier guys was absurd. Who on that list did you want and would have changed the trajectory of the defense? I get you want to get some talent, but the issue as long as I've seen is the lack of star talent on the roster. If you have more of those guys at every level, then you can plug in FAs. But relying on FA to build a defense does what? Gets you a bunch of role players akin to the Gruden years that give you substandard results. There are a ton of dudes that got less than $8M APY who would've been upgrades for us. And the Eagles would disagree with you. They traded for/signed 8 of the 11 starters from their great defense last season. They signed Hargrave, Reddick, Joseph, White, Epps, Bradberry and also traded for CGJ / Slay.  3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, NYRaider said: There are a ton of dudes that got less than $8M APY who would've been upgrades for us. And the Eagles would disagree with you. They traded for/signed 8 of the 11 starters from their great defense last season. They signed Hargrave, Reddick, Joseph, White, Epps, Bradberry and also traded for CGJ / Slay.  And for every Eagles, there is a Jacksonville, Cleveland, Washington who "win" FA periods and it amounts to set back. The Eagles also had stud like Graham, Cox, Maddox, Sweat to build around. They draft really well. Edited March 22, 2023 by big_palooka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, big_palooka said: And for every Eagles, there is a Jacksonville, Cleveland, Washington who "win" FA periods and it amounts to set back. The Eagles also had stud like Graham, Cox, Maddox, Sweat to build around. They draft really well. You're right. And even though they're committed to building through the draft, they've also been ultra aggressive in free agency. We lack talent and we're more passive than the good teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, big_palooka said: And for every Eagles, there is a Jacksonville, Cleveland, Washington who "win" FA periods and it amounts to set back. The Eagles also had stud like Graham, Cox, Maddox, Sweat to build around. They draft really well. I agree with what you're saying. You typically don't win by winning free agency. However, that's not quite what anyone is talking about. There is no reason we can't be players on some of these defenders getting 1 year deals for less than $10 million. That is not big spending or high risk multi year deals that could back fire like in the past. Hell, a 2 year 16 million deal for CGJ still wouldn't be what you're referring to.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 19 minutes ago, NYRaider said: You're right. And even though they're committed to building through the draft, they've also been ultra aggressive in free agency. We lack talent and we're more passive than the good teams. Passive? They've signed 12 players and have the 3rd most in spending. The problem is, you don't like the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Passive? They've signed 12 players and have the 3rd most in spending. The problem is, you don't like the players. They've spent $14M on the defense and gave Jimmy G $16M, lmao, come on bruh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 21 minutes ago, true2form said: I agree with what you're saying. You typically don't win by winning free agency. However, that's not quite what anyone is talking about. There is no reason we can't be players on some of these defenders getting 1 year deals for less than $10 million. That is not big spending or high risk multi year deals that could back fire like in the past. Hell, a 2 year 16 million deal for CGJ still wouldn't be what you're referring to.  I don't disagree necessarily, but willing to see how it plays out. This FA class was awful. There are never any sure things in FA. How many "upgrades" have the Raiders made over the years in FA. On paper, a lot. In performance, next to nothing. They are paying Littleton the big upgrade at LB until 2025. There is a lot of fools gold in FA. Ziegler is taking a measured approach for better or worse, we'll see. But one thing I do know... Raiders have tried throwing money at problems for years and that's not lead to winning consistently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 14 minutes ago, big_palooka said: Raiders have tried throwing money at problems for years and that's not lead to winning consistently. We blew through over $50M in cap space though bruh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: I don't disagree necessarily, but willing to see how it plays out. This FA class was awful. There are never any sure things in FA. It’s admirable being willing to see it all play out but when you say there are no sure things, Perryman, Harmon, Ya Sin and Billings are pretty much that as we’ve just seen what they did in our scheme with our coaches and all played at a decent to good level. None broke the bank and none would have prevented us from drafting a high ceiling rookie. All would have plugged massive holes with a known quantity at a very affordable rate. It’s puzzling.  Maybe none wanted to come back and then we have an even bigger problem……… 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, big_palooka said: I don't disagree necessarily, but willing to see how it plays out. This FA class was awful. There are never any sure things in FA. How many "upgrades" have the Raiders made over the years in FA. On paper, a lot. In performance, next to nothing. They are paying Littleton the big upgrade at LB until 2025. There is a lot of fools gold in FA. Ziegler is taking a measured approach for better or worse, we'll see. But one thing I do know... Raiders have tried throwing money at problems for years and that's not lead to winning consistently. I don't disagree with really any of what you're saying. I think we both had the same stance when Gruden took over and tore everything down. Give them time to build the roster the way they want. Gruden failed. This regime is apparently doing what Gruden did, but just in year two. Strange to me, but whatever they want to try I guess. It also seems we have no other choice, but to wait and see. It's not a terrible thing to build through the draft. I was expecting a down year as soon as we benched Carr and that has less to do with Carr the player than it does to the overall 3 year setup they had created. However, I was willing to see what they were going to do and if they could bring in a quick replacement for Carr. However, it's even more clear to me now that winning is not the priority this season. Of course they're going to try to win and will field the best team they have, but they're not all in and no one can argue that. Once again, that's ok, but it's a complete shift that I wasn't expecting after last offseason.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: We blew through over $50M in cap space though bruh And still managed to get objectively worse at numerous positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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