jimkelly02 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, NYRaider said: That's what happens when you hire 3 lame duck GM's back to back to back. Am I nuts for thinking McKenzie wasn’t a lame duck signing? He was given time to rebuild the absolute cap strapped roster. He just failed to draft and build a team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 4 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: Am I nuts for thinking McKenzie wasn’t a lame duck signing? He was given time to rebuild the absolute cap strapped roster. He just failed to draft and build a team. McKenzie took on probably the hardest job any GM has had to take on in NFL history after years of mismanagement by Al and with Hue doing his final touches. I respect the job he did for modernizing the Raiders front office and operations but outside of the 2014 draft he was certainly a lame duck GM when it came to roster construction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: McKenzie took on probably the hardest job any GM has had to take on in NFL history after years of mismanagement by Al and with Hue doing his final touches. I respect the job he did for modernizing the Raiders front office and operations but outside of the 2014 draft he was certainly a lame duck GM when it came to roster construction. I thought Reggie got a raw deal when Mark was negotiating to bring Gruden out of retirement. Gruden wanted full power over roster decisions in order to bring him out of retirement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Just now, bucksavage1 said: I thought Reggie got a raw deal when Mark was negotiating to bring Gruden out of retirement. Gruden wanted full power over roster decisions in order to bring him out of retirement. Reggie had full control over personnel decisions between 2012-2017 though. One of the reasons Gruden decided to blow it up instead of paying Cooper/Mack is because we lacked talent/depth across the roster because of how many picks Reggie wasted. Outside of 2014 most of his drafts were absolutely terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 I dont like McD very much, but im hoping he has a longer leash than 2023. The moves were making seem to be towards being competitive now while building a foundation for the future. Yea, they are spending cap on guys McD has familiarity with, but none of it is costing us our future. I think the plan is to get McD his type of guys through FA and the draft. The draft is going to be vital. Weve said all along that you have to build a winner through the draft, and that takes time. I think McZ gave the last guys regime a shot and it just didnt work. I dont mind them going about it their own way as opposed to just trying to find band-aid/win now solutions. Reggie went about it this way and had success, he just couldnt hit enough in the draft to make it sustainable. These guys are betting on their ability to draft and develop, and if they hit we will be good, if the dont, well it will be more of the same lol If we hit this year, we will have a foundation of young players to go along with a lot of cap space and not much dead cap. We need to stack a couple off-seasons together but we are in position with capital to be very flexible. I am looking at this season as a bridge year, i have no expectations of building a winner for 2023. Im expecting a young roster with a bunch of rookies. Im expecting 6-7 wins. Im looking for a young team that struggles early but is competitive and is playing its best ball at the end of the year. Then again, Jimmy can get hurt early and we win 2 games. At that point well be in position to draft our QBoTF lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, NYRaider said: he was certainly a lame duck GM when it came to roster construction. it seemed McKenzie had full control over signing FAs and even implemented “a pay as you go” contract system. that isn’t a lame duck to me. Lame duck means your already on the way out and didn’t get a fair chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Just now, jimkelly02 said: it seemed McKenzie had full control over signing FAs and even implemented “a pay as you go” contract system. that isn’t a lame duck to me. Lame duck means your already on the way out and didn’t get a fair chance. Lame duck GM to me is someone that doesn't build a good roster. McKenzie made some good moves but his terrible drafts really limited us from ever being able to take the next step. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Geezy said: I dont like McD very much, but im hoping he has a longer leash than 2023. The moves were making seem to be towards being competitive now while building a foundation for the future. Yea, they are spending cap on guys McD has familiarity with, but none of it is costing us our future. The moves that we've made so far just highlight that we're ultra focused on our passing offense, just like we were last off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Geezy said: I dont like McD very much, but im hoping he has a longer leash than 2023. Honest Question: Is it better if McD plain out fails in ‘23 and gets fired or we hold on another year and hope to continue the “rebuild”? To me it’s the same argument Carr haters had: once you realize he isn’t the guy you gotta move on. If you/when we end up with a top pick and can draft a QB isn’t it better to match the new coach with the QB instead of holding onto false hope of McD being able to now build his team since he got his long term QB. Edited March 15, 2023 by jimkelly02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Just now, jimkelly02 said: Honest Question: Is it better if McD plain out fails in ‘23 and gets fired or we hold on another year and hope to continue the “rebuild”? To me it’s the same argument Carr haters had: once you realize he isn’t the guy you gotta move on. I think context is important, how we play, how the season goes, the locker room, etc. play a huge role. It is annoying that JMD/DZ were hired together though, is Ziegler going to be ready and willing to fire his boy if things get out of hand next year? Or do you have to fire both and then you're in the same position having to hire a GM and a head coach in the same offseason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezy Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Just now, jimkelly02 said: Honest Question: Is it better if McD plain out fails in ‘23 and gets fired or we hold on another year and hope to continue the “rebuild”? To me it’s the same argument Carr haters had: once you realize he isn’t the guy you gotta move on. for the sake on continuity and avoiding yet another regime coming in and getting "thier guys" while we give up on young players from the prior staff. Id keep them. If its terrible and nothing comes of this draft class or theres no upside i say you have to make a change. But if the do well in the draft and look like an ascending team at the end of the season you have to keep them. If we stink it up and are in position to take a QBoTF then id feel better taking my chances on a new staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 There is only two outcomes that make me happy this year. A playoff berth... or we are so bad we get the #1 pick and get Caleb and Josh gets canned. A 6-11 season would be a disaster because we will be out of range of QB again. Although if we draft a QB in the 1st, and they take over mid-season, and look pretty good, and we finish 8-9, wouldn't be the worst outcome in the world. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, BayRaider said: There is only two outcomes that make me happy this year. A playoff berth... or we are so bad we get the #1 pick and get Caleb and Josh gets canned. A 6-11 season would be a disaster because we will be out of range of QB again. Although if we draft a QB in the 1st, and they take over mid-season, and look pretty good, and we finish 8-9, wouldn't be the worst outcome in the world. This is the Raiders so what's going to happen: we'll take Levis at #7, Jimmy G will get hurt midway through the season, Levis will look meh and we'll go 6-11. McDaniels comes back, we start off terribly in 2024 with Levis looking terrible and JMD gets canned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Just now, NYRaider said: This is the Raiders so what's going to happen: we'll take Levis at #7, Jimmy G will get hurt midway through the season, Levis will look meh and we'll go 6-11. McDaniels comes back, we start off terribly in 2024 with Levis looking terrible and JMD gets canned. Dude this is the worst possible two years I can imagine. Slap yourself for bringing this bad juju. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 31 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Dude this is the worst possible two years I can imagine. Slap yourself for bringing this bad juju. That's just legitimately what I think is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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