BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Clearly Carr shouldve hit Renfrow open against Pitt. It was a bad throw, that I am sure Carr wishes he couldve thrown again. . . but lets not forget there was 20-30 mile per hour wind that night too. some acting like this is an easy throw, are just purely hating on Carr. Which is fine, but Im guessing have never played a sport in extreme wind. Lots of reasons to hate on Carr, just always find the particular plays people rip on weird. There were missed throws all over the field that night. 16 rushing attempts in that game is silly to me, but, I understand we dont criticize JMD right now, only Carr. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimkelly02 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, BackinBlack said: Clearly Carr shouldve hit Renfrow open against Pitt. It was a bad throw, that I am sure Carr wishes he couldve thrown again. . . but lets not forget there was 20-30 mile per hour wind that night too. some acting like this is an easy throw, are just purely hating on Carr. Which is fine, but Im guessing have never played a sport in extreme wind. Lots of reasons to hate on Carr, just always find the particular plays people rip on weird. There were missed throws all over the field that night. 16 rushing attempts in that game is silly to me, but, I understand we dont criticize JMD right now, only Carr. That’s exactly my sentiments.  Year Carr made a bad throw in the wind, but the fact we didn’t run the ball more that game was to me the bigger mistake. btw it’s only a matter of time til the fanbase turns on McD, but right now it’s Carr, as you said! Edited February 23, 2023 by jimkelly02 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said: That’s exactly my sentiments.  Year Carr made a bad throw in the wind, but the fact we didn’t run the ball more that game was to me the bigger mistake. btw it’s only a matter of time til the fanbase turns on McD, but right now it’s Carr, as you said! So we'll all start liking him? Because outside of a very few people, I don't see a lot of love getting thrown his way. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 hours ago, BackinBlack said: Clearly Carr shouldve hit Renfrow open against Pitt. It was a bad throw, that I am sure Carr wishes he couldve thrown again. . . but lets not forget there was 20-30 mile per hour wind that night too. some acting like this is an easy throw, are just purely hating on Carr. Which is fine, but Im guessing have never played a sport in extreme wind. Lots of reasons to hate on Carr, just always find the particular plays people rip on weird. There were missed throws all over the field that night. 16 rushing attempts in that game is silly to me, but, I understand we dont criticize JMD right now, only Carr. It was an easy throw. He missed it because his feet got sloppy. He panicked and ran himself into pressure. If he resets his feet and stands in the pocket this is an easy pitch and catch. Instead he panics, keeps climbing and throws up a floater. He doesn't want to take hits and that is why he's someone else problems now.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: It was an easy throw. He missed it because his feet got sloppy. He panicked and ran himself into pressure. If he resets his feet and stands in the pocket this is an easy pitch and catch. Instead he panics, keeps climbing and throws up a floater. He doesn't want to take hits and that is why he's someone else problems now.  Again, the fact that both QBs were missing throws all over the field that game, and that throughout the history of the NFL, qbs have struggled in winds above 20mph. . let alone 30mph, shows at least to me, its not as easy as you make it seem. Do you think its weird that we only had 16 run plays called? I do. That game shouldve been a ground and pound game. If Jacobs was hurt, that is why we drafted 2 and brought in2 more RBs right? why did we carry 5 RBs, to essentially only give jacobs carries? Jacobs lead the league in rushing. . . but we were a middle of the pack run team. . . that is not typical. We should have been There are many problems with this team. . which you explain in other threads. . etc. . then purely blame carr for not stepping up this year. But our TE#1 and WR #2 were injured for most of the year. Mack Hollins had a career year for us, but is not a starting nfl WR. . . Foster Morea had a career year for us, but is not an elite TE like waller. We should have had an elite Rushing game with Jacobs but were 16th in yards and bottom 10 in rushing tds. . . Derek Carr and Stidham were our #2 and #3 rush leaders lmao. Put all the blame on Derek Carr, thats fine. . . but some of you are really over exaggerating our team. Very easy to bracket DA when the other WRs are Cole and Hollins with Foster at TE. and DA still ate this year, right up there with his best seasons in GB. Yes again, its a missed throw, that Carr shouldve made, and we all know can make. Just as I know Jacobs couldve had more than 44 yards that game . . . Carr is gone, but the Raiders still have a lot of problems  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 20 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: Again, the fact that both QBs were missing throws all over the field that game, and that throughout the history of the NFL, qbs have struggled in winds above 20mph. . let alone 30mph, shows at least to me, its not as easy as you make it seem. I'd buy this excuse, except Pickett a rookie went 11/14 with a TD in the 4 quarter on 2 scoring drives. While Carr, a 9 year vet tossed 3 INTs in the second half. 27 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: Do you think its weird that we only had 16 run plays called? I do. That game shouldve been a ground and pound game. No. Steelers ranked 6th in ypc average in run defense and were holding the Raiders to < 3 ypc. Their pass defense ranked 4th worst in ypa. 2nd worst in TDs given up. Good game plan, bad QB play. 33 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: There are many problems with this team. . which you explain in other threads. . etc. . then purely blame carr for not stepping up this year. I'm not putting the blame purely on Carr. There are lots of issues from coaching, to talent, to execution but the QB had to be better. He had an all-pro WR who he would ignore for stretches of games. He'd miss open WRs checking down because he didn't want to get hit. It's all on the tape. As I've said for years, Carr is not the problem, but far from the solution. Don't pay average, that was the mistake.  1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 If the reports that we're not pursuing Rodgers are true, I think that points to Ziegler and McDaniels both feeling pretty safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, big_palooka said: As I've said for years, Carr is not the problem, but far from the solution. Don't pay average, that was the mistake. We especially can't pay average because we have a roster that's devoid of talent and depth at basically every position because of how terribly Gruden/Mayock drafted and all of the dead money that they created. We currently have $48M in cap space and $29M in dead cap ($5M is Carr) if you didn't have that dead cap and you kept Carr we'd still have roughly $40M in cap space to work with this offseason. Their inability to draft was like historically terrible, 23 draft picks over three years including 6 FRPs/2 2RPs/5 3RPs and only 7 of them are under contract next season. (Crosby, Renfrow, Hobbs, Moehrig, Amik, Moehrig, Koonce) Jacobs is still TBD but if he leaves that means of the 8 1st/2nd round picks they made only Moehrig will still be on the team. And only three of the guys that they picked over that span are locked into starting spots next year (Crosby/Renfrow/Hobbs) with Moehrig/Deablo also having a chance to start but they're both JAGs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 42 minutes ago, big_palooka said: I'd buy this excuse, except Pickett a rookie went 11/14 with a TD in the 4 quarter on 2 scoring drives. While Carr, a 9 year vet tossed 3 INTs in the second half. No. Steelers ranked 6th in ypc average in run defense and were holding the Raiders to < 3 ypc. Their pass defense ranked 4th worst in ypa. 2nd worst in TDs given up. Good game plan, bad QB play. I'm not putting the blame purely on Carr. There are lots of issues from coaching, to talent, to execution but the QB had to be better. He had an all-pro WR who he would ignore for stretches of games. He'd miss open WRs checking down because he didn't want to get hit. It's all on the tape. As I've said for years, Carr is not the problem, but far from the solution. Don't pay average, that was the mistake.  A number of QBs posted unreal 4th Qs against our D unfortunately. . . something I believe Carr couldve done too. Lighting up our D is not really a sign of someone playing well unforunately. Frick remember the 9ers qb thursday night game against us a few years back. . . Carr def struggled, but Steelers led the league in picks (albiet 3 from Carr, but even with nonewouldve been tied for 3rd in ints. . our D was tied for last). Teams threw on them but they were also an opportunistic D, which I think everyone can say is better unit than ours. Ah so the old make a game plan and stick to it regardless. If it was a snow blizzard or pouring rain, same thing, just refuse to run? Cause wind is just as big of an impact. I agree the Steelers are a good ground team, but, going one dimensional is never smart. Especially when playing in extreme weather. Surprised youre arguing it was good game plan to run 15 times, in that weather, but ok. We agree to disagree edited to add - our first drive, we ran 8 times, and scored a TD. so the gameplan was actually to run 🤣 Again, when you line up, Adams Cole Foster and Hollins, its pretty easy to take away adams. Obviously, against the Steelers we had Waller and Renfrow back, so just speaking on the season. Agreed not the problem, not the solution. . . but to get rid of him with no plan in 23 which is being reported is silly. Dont pay average, unless its the D, Oline, or depth - seems to be the raiders moto. Edited February 23, 2023 by BackinBlack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, NYRaider said: We especially can't pay average because we have a roster that's devoid of talent and depth at basically every position because of how terribly Gruden/Mayock drafted and all of the dead money that they created. We currently have $48M in cap space and $29M in dead cap ($5M is Carr) if you didn't have that dead cap and you kept Carr we'd still have roughly $40M in cap space to work with this offseason. Their inability to draft was like historically terrible, 23 draft picks over three years including 6 FRPs/2 2RPs/5 3RPs and only 7 of them are under contract next season. (Crosby, Renfrow, Hobbs, Moehrig, Amik, Moehrig, Koonce) Jacobs is still TBD but if he leaves that means of the 8 1st/2nd round picks they made only Moehrig will still be on the team. And only three of the guys that they picked over that span are locked into starting spots next year (Crosby/Renfrow/Hobbs) with Moehrig/Deablo also having a chance to start but they're both JAGs. but again, jsut to tie this in, Carr is the one who is being judged for his play based off all these blown draft picks. little depth, little elite talent, dead cap etc etc. I am fine with JMD getting his guy though, because coaches need at least 3 years. What Gruden showed me, is that even with missing draft picks, if you have a system in place for 3 years, that alone should help make your team competitive as the players are familair with their rolls and what not. How we made the playoffs with 6 of 7 1st round picks being almost unless, blows my mind. but there was consistency, and that helps tremendously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just now, BackinBlack said: but again, jsut to tie this in, Carr is the one who is being judged for his play based off all these blown draft picks. little depth, little elite talent, dead cap etc etc. I am fine with JMD getting his guy though, because coaches need at least 3 years. What Gruden showed me, is that even with missing draft picks, if you have a system in place for 3 years, that alone should help make your team competitive as the players are familair with their rolls and what not. How we made the playoffs with 6 of 7 1st round picks being almost unless, blows my mind. but there was consistency, and that helps tremendously Carr isn't being judged exclusively though, he's just the only player we had the freedom to move on from and generate an additional $30M in cap space. The lack of talent/depth is the reason we can't pay him but looking back at last offseason we also really weren't in position to trade/pay Adams, or pay guys like Waller, Renfrow, or Chandler. We should've probably just tore it down again but that wasn't going to happen coming off of a playoff year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Carr isn't being judged exclusively though, he's just the only player we had the freedom to move on from and generate an additional $30M in cap space. The lack of talent/depth is the reason we can't pay him but looking back at last offseason we also really weren't in position to trade/pay Adams, or pay guys like Waller, Renfrow, or Chandler. We should've probably just tore it down again but that wasn't going to happen coming off of a playoff year. Create 30 mil to go into next year with no QB. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/raiders-gm-dave-ziegler-says-immediate-answer-at-qb-may-not-come-in-2023-what-this-means-for-las-vegas/ Couldve just paid carr next season, and cut him for 7 mil dead money in 24? Give him a second year in the system, and potentially healthier team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 12 minutes ago, BackinBlack said: Create 30 mil to go into next year with no QB. Couldve just paid carr next season, and cut him for 7 mil dead money in 24? Give him a second year in the system, and potentially healthier team. That was definitely an option, I always thought that he'd get at least two seasons under the new regime since his cap hit didn't explode until 24/25, $33M for Carr would've looked like a bargain after we see all of these new QB deals given out next month. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, NYRaider said: That was definitely an option, I always thought that he'd get at least two seasons under the new regime since his cap hit didn't explode until 24/25, $33M for Carr would've looked like a bargain after we see all of these new QB deals given out next month. yup. i really think they were all in for brady, and i think carr knew that as well then brady retired and damage was done. i think its fair to critize both JMD and DZ for how they handled the qb position. Davis signed off on the plan to go get brady, as its the only qb hed move on from carr for IMO now lets just pray we get a qb that becomes legit top 10 qb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 1 hour ago, BackinBlack said: yup. i really think they were all in for brady, and i think carr knew that as well then brady retired and damage was done. i think its fair to critize both JMD and DZ for how they handled the qb position. Davis signed off on the plan to go get brady, as its the only qb hed move on from carr for IMO now lets just pray we get a qb that becomes legit top 10 qb. To be fair though, Dave Ziegler and Josh McDaniels were with the Patriots when they decided to move on from him without a strong plan to replace him. Burrow, Herbert, Tua, and Love were all FRPs in 2020 and they passed on the chance to draft Love or trade up for one of the other three. They actually traded back, tried to address other holes, rolled with Newton/Stidham for a year, and then drafted Mac the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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