Big Nasties - IDL Discussion

[BetterCallSaul]

Mazi Smith Evaluation

 

+Elite athlete and COD for a DT.
+Has power in his punch and does a great job swiping hands.
+Plays hard and will pursue plays away from him.
+Doesn't appear to be out of shape.
+Best DT in the NFL type of upside.

 

-Inconsistent, especially in the pass game.
-Peeks too much for the QB/RB instead of defeating the block first.
-Doesn't have a great pass rush plan if his first move is stifled.
-Can be late off the snap and late to identify blocking schemes. Not super late, but a hair too late is all it takes.
 

 

**Plays like an average NFL starter, which isn't a bad thing. Has the upside to be much more if he can marry himself to technique and a better "first second" of the ball being snapped. Most of these big freaky monster DT's are all boom-or-bust. I don't think that's Mazi. I expect him to be at least a solid starting DT for years to come and his negative traits are some of the easiest to overcome/correct.

 

 

NFL Comparison: 
Prime Albert Haynesworth

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, BrownLeader said:

discussion wasn't about whether he was double teamed or not Daniel. ;(

Yeah, it was about run stuffing.  I don't know how you think a clip of six plays has any bearing on that, but if it did, here's how: Benton is so effective at stuffing a gap, that Michigan, one of the best OLs in the country, assigned two blockers for him in run blocking.

[jebrick]

1 minute ago, Daniel said:

Yeah, it was about run stuffing.  I don't know how you think a clip of six plays has any bearing on that, but if it did, here's how: Benton is so effective at stuffing a gap, that Michigan, one of the best OLs in the country, assigned two blockers for him in run blocking.

The point was that when he stands up, he gets moved.

[jebrick]

43 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Mazi Smith Evaluation

 

+Elite athlete and COD for a DT.
+Has power in his punch and does a great job swiping hands.
+Plays hard and will pursue plays away from him.
+Doesn't appear to be out of shape.
+Best DT in the NFL type of upside.

 

-Inconsistent, especially in the pass game.
-Peeks too much for the QB/RB instead of defeating the block first.
-Doesn't have a great pass rush plan if his first move is stifled.
-Can be late off the snap and late to identify blocking schemes. Not super late, but a hair too late is all it takes.
 

 

**Plays like an average NFL starter, which isn't a bad thing. Has the upside to be much more if he can marry himself to technique and a better "first second" of the ball being snapped. Most of these big freaky monster DT's are all boom-or-bust. I don't think that's Mazi. I expect him to be at least a solid starting DT for years to come and his negative traits are some of the easiest to overcome/correct.

 

 

NFL Comparison: 
Prime Albert Haynesworth

The thing that stood out to me on Smith was him not getting moved back from the LOS.  Pass rush?  Nope.  Lateral movement while holding his gap?  Has some issues.  Watching him vs tOSU was pretty impressive.  Biggest issue was trying to get off the double team or block to make the play but he could not be moved from the line. 

[Daniel]

7 minutes ago, jebrick said:

The point was that when he stands up, he gets moved.

In the post before the video, this is all he quoted, and that baffled me: 

Quote

Not sure who you are watching but Benton is one of the best run stuffers in college.  He would be close to a Casey Hampton NT with slightly less explosiveness ( and weight).

Then the double team thing.  My whole point is that a few clips of any interior guy getting double teamed (much less by one of the top Cs) definitely doesn't go to that.  It doesn't show anything.  It's in no way answerable to the statement above, except that it shows quality OLs still double team Benton to run at him, which, if anything, makes the point he's trying to refute.  If he's trying to refute a different point, then I don't know why he wouldn't quote that.

I'm not even high on Benton.  I don't think he does enough moving of the middle of the pocket, in the tape I've watched, to justify a high pick for a guy who's a pure nose.  A great nose will not only take up a gap, but be able to move the center of the pocket up and collapse it from the inside, or show some pass rush moves, or something other than that one ability.

[BrownLeader]

58 minutes ago, Daniel said:

In the post before the video, this is all he quoted, and that baffled me: 

Then the double team thing.  My whole point is that a few clips of any interior guy getting double teamed (much less by one of the top Cs) definitely doesn't go to that.  It doesn't show anything.  It's in no way answerable to the statement above, except that it shows quality OLs still double team Benton to run at him, which, if anything, makes the point he's trying to refute.  If he's trying to refute a different point, then I don't know why he wouldn't quote that.

I'm not even high on Benton.  I don't think he does enough moving of the middle of the pocket, in the tape I've watched, to justify a high pick for a guy who's a pure nose.  A great nose will not only take up a gap, but be able to move the center of the pocket up and collapse it from the inside, or show some pass rush moves, or something other than that one ability.

no one is going to post hours of game film to make a point. I put up a bunch of snaps through 5 or so games the last couple pages to point out that I see this often enough from him. ..he doesn't consistently do a good job at all of holding his ground at the poa. If ppl think this guy rn is great at anchoring at the los..he's not.

@jebrickHe's tight, high cut and lacks flexibility. I'd wager it's always going to be an issue for him to routinely get down. The natural power is there and linear mobility for that size. ...if he straightens out his technique I see the potential, but I wouldn't say run defending is his bag sts. At best I see a Carl Davis-ish guy. Not anywhere near a Casey Hampton. And I'm not even sure he'll test as well as Davis. Hey, if I'm totally off base hold this receipt

Edited February 24, 2023 by BrownLeader

[Jeezla]

Much like Jordan Davis, Mazi Smith's combine will get him drafted about 20 spots too early.

[BetterCallSaul]

41 minutes ago, Jeezla said:

Much like Jordan Davis, Mazi Smith's combine will get him drafted about 20 spots too early.

Wasn’t Jordan Davis good?

And with that said, I feel like Smith is gonna be good too…even if he is exactly who he is right now. I wouldn’t be shellshocked if Smith went in the 1st, even if his combine was only “solid.”

[jrry32]

15 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

+Best DT in the NFL type of upside.

I definitely did not see that upside. You don't get to that sort of upside unless you have double-digit sack potential. I wasn't remotely impressed by Smith's pass rushing.

[BetterCallSaul]

3 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I definitely did not see that upside. You don't get to that sort of upside unless you have double-digit sack potential. I wasn't remotely impressed by Smith's pass rushing.

He has fantastic hand swipes that leave him some unimpeded paths to the QB. He will get hustle/effort sacks with his speed. He can bull rush NFL prospects right into the QBs lap. I think his pass rush game is fine, even though he does get stuck on blocks at times without working any moves. I think he’s more raw as a rusher than he is bad at it. 

[Daniel]

Watching Smith and Morris on the field, it always looked like Smith was the better player of the two, but Morris was somehow always the one who actually made the impact plays. Wasn’t sure what to make of him myself.

[jebrick]

Some of this is also trying to figure out what their assignments were.    Smith's assignments seem to be a 2 gap and play run first.  Benton, oddly, was always playing one gap which did him zero favors.

[BetterCallSaul]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

Some of this is also trying to figure out what their assignments were.    Smith's assignments seem to be a 2 gap and play run first.  Benton, oddly, was always playing one gap which did him zero favors.

1-gapping is much easier though. Mazi did mostly 1-gapping from what I saw, even if he was aligned at the 0 more than Benton. 

[jebrick]

1 minute ago, BetterCallSaul said:

1-gapping is much easier though. Mazi did mostly 1-gapping from what I saw, even if he was aligned at the 0 more than Benton. 

Smith was not shooting a gap vs tOSU.  He engaged and held his ground.  That is 2 gap has he is trying to control both of the gaps on either side of C/OG.  Benton is always shoots a gap.  THat is why he is blown off his feet by double teams.  He lacks the explosiveness to get in the gap before the double team, his shoulders are not square his balance is off and away he goes.

 

Smith does not play 2 gap all the time but, I think, a majority of the time.  Benton always plays 1 gap.  Unless it is a goalline play and then he gets embarrassed vs tOSU.

[jrry32]

7 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

He has fantastic hand swipes that leave him some unimpeded paths to the QB. He will get hustle/effort sacks with his speed. He can bull rush NFL prospects right into the QBs lap. I think his pass rush game is fine, even though he does get stuck on blocks at times without working any moves. I think he’s more raw as a rusher than he is bad at it. 

Do you have a game I should watch where he made a consistent impact as a pass rusher (or even a somewhat consistent impact)? Because I definitely didn't see this. He looked like a pure NT to me who would come off the field on passing downs.