Skibrett's 6ers Style Rebuild - Keep Mason Crosby Edition

[hitnhope]

35 minutes ago, squire12 said:

Did you miss the 2019, 2020 and 2021 seasons?

In case you missed it, GB posted the following

2019:  13-3 and #2 seed

2020: 13-3 and #1 seed

2021: 13-4 and #1 seed

I guess the person responsible for assembling the teams capable of doing  that gets 0 credit

The heart of those teams came from his predecessor.  He didn't make the moves to let them get a SB.  The ST were obvious last year.   Now that we need to rely on what Gute has drafted we are back sliding.  

Wait to make the needed move and we will have a few more years of poor performance tacked on.  Good organizations recognize a problem and fix it ala Ray Rhodes.

[squire12]

6 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

The heart of those teams came from his predecessor.

Offense starters 6, 5, 3 from the predecessor in those seasons respectively 

Defensive starters 4, 3, 3.

Oh, Gutekunst was part of the scouring staff that assisted in acquiring some of those players.

6 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

 

  He didn't make the moves to let them get a SB. 

What moves specifically?

6 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

The ST were obvious last year. 

Coaching not a factor in poor special teams play?

6 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

 Now that we need to rely on what Gute has drafted we are back sliding.  

Wait to make the needed move and we will have a few more years of poor performance tacked on.  Good organizations recognize a problem and fix it ala Ray Rhodes.

So the players were good enough to get to 13, 13, 13 wins in  3 consecutive seasons and their play has regressed is somehow the GM's fault for that regression?  Do players not have any responsibility in their performance?

 

[coachbuns]

10 hours ago, hitnhope said:

He isn't responsible for the lack of talent on ST?   He doesn't need to have a returner who can actually catch the punt?  He isn't responsible for the talent level on offense that leads to your OL getting run through like a sieve? The offense totally reliant on 1 wide receiver with poor talent beyond Adams? The GM has no input on/with the Coaching staff?

A team is what its record is.   We are 4 - 7.  Are you saying that the GM has no responsibility for the talent level on the team? All of the problems with the Packers are coaching related and none of the problems are due to the talent on hand?

Your response is ridiculous.  I get that my posts aren't very positive regarding the leadership team, and many fans don't want to read that.  Sorry, some people need to live in the real world.

Your reaction to my response is so short sighted as you take no consideration into his previous years.  You have cherry picked one year and went with that for your thoughts.  Injuries, losing top notch coaches, covid cap crap restrictions and where they have drafted has affected this team big time.  You keep ranting and raving .. the real world will survive despite.

[Nick_gb]

19 hours ago, hitnhope said:

He isn't responsible for the lack of talent on ST?   He doesn't need to have a returner who can actually catch the punt?  He isn't responsible for the talent level on offense that leads to your OL getting run through like a sieve? The offense totally reliant on 1 wide receiver with poor talent beyond Adams? The GM has no input on/with the Coaching staff?

A team is what its record is.   We are 4 - 7.  Are you saying that the GM has no responsibility for the talent level on the team? All of the problems with the Packers are coaching related and none of the problems are due to the talent on hand?

Your response is ridiculous.  I get that my posts aren't very positive regarding the leadership team, and many fans don't want to read that.  Sorry, some people need to live in the real world.

You strike me as a guy that's only committed to his commitment issues. The type that could be in a 20 year long relationship, but the second something doesn't go his way in the relationship, is gonna walk from it. 1 moment doesn't define someone's entire character. Just like one bad season, doesn't define a GM or HC. These things happen, how or IF we rebound from it, will be the true determining factor of what our FO and team is made of. Not this season. 

[Norm]

14 minutes ago, Nick_gb said:

You strike me as a guy that's only committed to his commitment issues. The type that could be in a 20 year long relationship, but the second something doesn't go his way in the relationship, is gonna walk from it. 1 moment doesn't define someone's entire character. Just like one bad season, doesn't define a GM or HC. These things happen, how or IF we rebound from it, will be the true determining factor of what our FO and team is made of. Not this season. 

There's no team in the NFL they could be a fan of where after a couple years they wouldn't think their GM was trash. 

They have no perspective of what a typical 53 is like or what an above average draft is. They do too many mock drafts and think they only liked all the great players and not the rest as well

Edited November 26, 2022 by Norm

[Striker]

1 hour ago, Norm said:

There's no team in the NFL they could be a fan of where after a couple years they wouldn't think their GM was trash. 

They have no perspective of what a typical 53 is like or what an above average draft is. They do too many mock drafts and think they only liked all the great players and not the rest as well

100 percent this. The problem with fans like this are they:

-Seem to lack any perspective as to how other GMs draft. Even when shown evidence of how other GMs have run percentages wise, they'll insist Gute is worse.
-Refer to a lack of an "all in" or "fix the roster" moves and often cite Wolf's highly overrated addition of Andre Rison...even though Gute (or TT back in the day) made similarly impactful in season moves.
-Seem to think other teams don't have holes on their team...even though you could point to most of the SB winners of the past 20 years and find a hole/holes. It's all about how your positions of strength cover them up.
-Are always waiting for the wheels to fall off so they can crow about how right they are. Even if it takes a decade plus (see all those who were ready with "TOLD YA SO" after Thompson's tenure ended) and they had to endure being mostly wrong for that period of time.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Striker

[hitnhope]

3 hours ago, Nick_gb said:

You strike me as a guy that's only committed to his commitment issues. The type that could be in a 20 year long relationship, but the second something doesn't go his way in the relationship, is gonna walk from it. 1 moment doesn't define someone's entire character. Just like one bad season, doesn't define a GM or HC. These things happen, how or IF we rebound from it, will be the true determining factor of what our FO and team is made of. Not this season. 

Nope.   Completely wrong.  Not remotely close to how I live my personal life.  Your crystal ball on reading me is broken.   Just like most people's ability to see what is happening up at 1265.

I have been a Packer fan for life and see it much more like running a business than as a personal relationship.   People that make emotional decisions in the business world go out of business.   People that get too trusting of a football teams leadership miss mistakes and trends.  The team becomes a loser.   The Packers are in the process of throwing away a great 30 year run because they are looking at this GM with their emotions and their hearts rather than with discernment.

[hitnhope]

12 hours ago, coachbuns said:

Your reaction to my response is so short sighted as you take no consideration into his previous years.  You have cherry picked one year and went with that for your thoughts.  Injuries, losing top notch coaches, covid cap crap restrictions and where they have drafted has affected this team big time.  You keep ranting and raving .. the real world will survive despite.

On the contrary I think your response is very short sighted.   You are finding emotional reasons to excuse everything that has gone wrong.  

His drafting has been poor. i don't care what some here excuse due to picking in the back half of the draft.   That is 1/2 of a pick per year.   We aren't getting contributions above replacement level out of picks after the 2nd round.  It is obvious that every pick isn't going to work out, but we have far too many not working out. and from picks as high as the 3rd round. Never mind picks like Savage, Love, where we wasted a 1st round pick on a bad or not needed player.  Other teams are getting better contributions from their 4 thru 7th round picks while the Packers get very little after the 2nd.

He has left the WR barren this year.   Did nothing to help the ST units.  I actually think you are the one looking at only 1 year and finding excuses rather than looking at the entire body of work.  Blaming Injuries, losing top notch coaches, covid cap crap restrictions is more excuse making.  What team wasn't impacted with the exact same things over the last 3 years?

You keep putting your head in the sand and watch this team get worse.  But yes, the world will survive. On that point we can agree.

[hitnhope]

3 hours ago, Norm said:

There's no team in the NFL they could be a fan of where after a couple years they wouldn't think their GM was trash. 

They have no perspective of what a typical 53 is like or what an above average draft is. They do too many mock drafts and think they only liked all the great players and not the rest as well

I went a long time without complaint about Ron Wolf or Ted Thompson.  Like almost always you are wrong again.

 

[Nick_gb]

18 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

Nope.   Completely wrong.  Not remotely close to how I live my personal life.  Your crystal ball on reading me is broken.   Just like most people's ability to see what is happening up at 1265.

I have been a Packer fan for life and see it much more like running a business than as a personal relationship.   People that make emotional decisions in the business world go out of business.   People that get too trusting of a football teams leadership miss mistakes and trends.  The team becomes a loser.   The Packers are in the process of throwing away a great 30 year run because they are looking at this GM with their emotions and their hearts rather than with discernment.

I don't look at it like it's a business, because it isn't like a business. It is exactly that, a business. Everyone here is aware of that. Just like in a business your profit margins may be down one year and up another year. You have your ups and you have your downs. Not everything is always going to be great or even good. The difference between people on this forum versus yourself is one thing and one thing only. We all have a little hope that this isn't becoming a norm for us and is just a down year. Where as you, lack that word in all except your username. 

[hitnhope]

4 minutes ago, Nick_gb said:

I don't look at it like it's a business, because it isn't like a business. It is exactly that, a business. Everyone here is aware of that. Just like in a business your profit margins may be down one year and up another year. You have your ups and you have your downs. Not everything is always going to be great or even good. The difference between people on this forum versus yourself is one thing and one thing only. We all have a little hope that this isn't becoming a norm for us and is just a down year. Where as you, lack that word in all except your username. 

You are right.  After watching Gute make bad moves for several years I have lost hope that he will ever be the kind of GM that will build a Super Bowl winning team.

Business' that don't catch trends and adjust over several years lose money and/or go out of business.   The heart of this roster brought in by the previous regime is now getting old.  The days of them carrying us to 13 win regular seasons are most likely over.    When we have to rely on the portion of the roster built by Gute problems become the norm.  Get used to this type season if Gute remains.

[Nick_gb]

6 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

You are right.  After watching Gute make bad moves for several years I have lost hope that he will ever be the kind of GM that will build a Super Bowl winning team.

Business' that don't catch trends and adjust over several years lose money and/or go out of business.   The heart of this roster brought in by the previous regime is now getting old.  The days of them carrying us to 13 win regular seasons are most likely over.    When we have to rely on the portion of the roster built by Gute problems become the norm.  Get used to this type season if Gute remains.

You're right, because Stokes, Dillon,  Gary, Jenkins and Jaire are not good foundational pieces. The additions of De'Vondre Campbel & Rasul Douglas mid season, were a horrible idea. He makes good moves. Better then a good bit of the NFL GM's in the National Football League, we're just having a bad season and you're incapable of chalking it up to that and instead need to go to the extreme, because there can't be ANY other reason, then the worst. Honestly, to me? It sounds like you have a lot of growing up to do.

[hitnhope]

Just now, Nick_gb said:

You're right, because Stokes, Dillon,  Gary, Jenkins and Jaire are not good foundational pieces. The additions of De'Vondre Campbel & Rasul Douglas mid season, were a horrible idea. He makes good moves. Better then a good bit of the NFL GM's in the National Football League, we're just having a bad season and you're incapable of chalking it up to that and instead need to go to the extreme, because there can't be ANY other reason, then the worst. Honestly, to me? It sounds like you have a lot of growing up to do.

Stokes is TBD.  Dillon was a bad investment picking a backup RB with a 2nd round pick.   Gary is very good.  Jaire is good although wasted in the defense we have played this year.    Campbell and Douglas worked out very well.  Why did we have to go to street free agent for a CB after all of the draft picks spent at DB?  I've been pointing at Gute since the Love draft debacle.  You'd think they had never met Rodgers prior to making that move.  Everything subsequent has been very predictable.

Gute's mismanagement of the QB position has hamstrung this team this year and even more importantly for the future.  A good GM would never let himself get in the position we are cap wise.

BTW = Do you notice the absence of offensive talent on this team?   Gute hit on Jenkins, I'll give him that.  Beyond that we have a severe lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball.   The lack of receiving talent with the exception of Adams has been glaring for years.  I'll admit we have hope that some of the rookies develop and solve some of the receiving depth down the road.  We shouldn't be surprised that it has been a huge problem this year though.

I will admit I am laughing at your line about growing up.  You really don't know a thing about me but are willing to post statements like that and then call me extreme.  You haven't a clue.

[Nick_gb]

17 minutes ago, hitnhope said:

Stokes is TBD.  Dillon was a bad investment picking a backup RB with a 2nd round pick.   Gary is very good.  Jaire is good although wasted in the defense we have played this year.    Campbell and Douglas worked out very well.  Why did we have to go to street free agent for a CB after all of the draft picks spent at DB?  I've been pointing at Gute since the Love draft debacle.  You'd think they had never met Rodgers prior to making that move.  Everything subsequent has been very predictable.

Gute's mismanagement of the QB position has hamstrung this team this year and even more importantly for the future.  A good GM would never let himself get in the position we are cap wise.

BTW = Do you notice the absence of offensive talent on this team?   Gute hit on Jenkins, I'll give him that.  Beyond that we have a severe lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball.   The lack of receiving talent with the exception of Adams has been glaring for years.  I'll admit we have hope that some of the rookies develop and solve some of the receiving depth down the road.  We shouldn't be surprised that it has been a huge problem this year though.

I will admit I am laughing at your line about growing up.  You really don't know a thing about me but are willing to post statements like that and then call me extreme.  You haven't a clue.

I'm just going to be honest here. No offense to you or anything. However, arguing back and forth with someone, who at the first sight of negativity instantly jumps to the "sky is falling" just isn't something I'm interested in. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and I'm sure in time we will find out whether or not you are correct or wrong and vice versa for myself. However, at this point. The only thing that is going to determine that is time and not time that would be invested into this argument. Best of luck with that type of negativity though. Viewing a glass as half full is far more enjoyable and healthy than viewing it as half empty. Take care! 

[hitnhope]

1 hour ago, Nick_gb said:

I'm just going to be honest here. No offense to you or anything. However, arguing back and forth with someone, who at the first sight of negativity instantly jumps to the "sky is falling" just isn't something I'm interested in. You're certainly entitled to your opinion and I'm sure in time we will find out whether or not you are correct or wrong and vice versa for myself. However, at this point. The only thing that is going to determine that is time and not time that would be invested into this argument. Best of luck with that type of negativity though. Viewing a glass as half full is far more enjoyable and healthy than viewing it as half empty. Take care! 

Agreed. We will find out who is correct.  If Gute hangs on, I do hope you are.   I just can't see it.   

The only thing I would add is that I was never negative with Wolf or TT.  The only GM since Wolf I have had a problem with is Gute.  I'm not able to see this glass half full.