Future of Daron Payne

[Troublez]

At what point, does this team accurately assess the value of Daron Payne. He is an absolute monster - and while DT is a viewed as a "lesser position," he is a true footbal stud. I would extend Payne and trade Sweat before I let Payne walk next season. Am I off base here?

[RSkinGM]

36 minutes ago, Troublez said:

At what point, does this team accurately assess the value of Daron Payne. He is an absolute monster - and while DT is a viewed as a "lesser position," he is a true footbal stud. I would extend Payne and trade Sweat before I let Payne walk next season. Am I off base here?

That's a close call but I think I lean to your side. 

[e16bball]

21 minutes ago, Troublez said:

At what point, does this team accurately assess the value of Daron Payne. He is an absolute monster - and while DT is a viewed as a "lesser position," he is a true footbal stud. I would extend Payne and trade Sweat before I let Payne walk next season. Am I off base here?

At this point, I think you probably have to try to sign both of them (Payne and Sweat). I have consistently said not to sign Payne, but I think things have changed.

The cost for the DL will get uncomfortable, but the truth is that aside from Kam Curl, there’s no one else on the team (outside the DL) that should warrant any kind of serious extension at this point. And even Kam should be relatively affordable, due to the proliferation of good players at his position, and we could theoretically move on with Forrest if the dollars were getting really tight. Cap commitments only matter inasmuch as they’re keeping you from having something else you want (opportunity cost), and I’m not sure what else exactly this team is going to spend major bucks on. I’d rather keep our good players in place than gamble on outside players coming in.

The other thing they’ll be able to start doing, if they continue to wait as long as possible on these extensions (as they have, for the most part), is play the restructure game. By the time we’re signing Sweat, for example, Jon Allen will be far enough into his new deal to justify restructuring/extending him. You can shrink that cap number substantially through those methods, and that should open up the space to re-invest in keeping that DL together. Those void years open up the ability to drop the current cap number to an absolutely minuscule figure, as long as you are willing to gamble current cash on a bet that (a) the player will stay effective for a few years and (b) the cap will continue to go up and up.

I never thought it would be possible to keep those 4 together that long — but in all fairness, I really hoped we’d have some other good youngish players who we’d have to pay as well. But the sad truth is that now that Terry is paid, we really don’t. And perhaps the even sadder truth is that we all assumed that Chase was a lock for a mega-contract. But at this point, we can’t even be certain he’s a candidate for an extension, let alone a mega-deal. 
 

In the end, I think the lesson of the last few years with this franchise (and this league) is this: you don’t let good talent leave, and you sort out the other details when you get there. Daron has added the (huge) missing piece of “legit pass-rush threat” to his arsenal, and he’s done it while being absolutely abused by a coaching staff and FO that hung both he and Allen out to dry by having no legit depth at their position. Those boys are both playing over 82% of the defensive snaps (Payne is at over 86%), which is criminal. One can only imagine what they’d be doing on a play-by-play basis if they had fresh legs and a chance to catch their breath.

[MKnight82]

11 minutes ago, e16bball said:

At this point, I think you probably have to try to sign both of them (Payne and Sweat). I have consistently said not to sign Payne, but I think things have changed.

The cost for the DL will get uncomfortable, but the truth is that aside from Kam Curl, there’s no one else on the team (outside the DL) that should warrant any kind of serious extension at this point. And even Kam should be relatively affordable, due to the proliferation of good players at his position, and we could theoretically move on with Forrest if the dollars were getting really tight. Cap commitments only matter inasmuch as they’re keeping you from having something else you want (opportunity cost), and I’m not sure what else exactly this team is going to spend major bucks on. I’d rather keep our good players in place than gamble on outside players coming in.

The other thing they’ll be able to start doing, if they continue to wait as long as possible on these extensions (as they have, for the most part), is play the restructure game. By the time we’re signing Sweat, for example, Jon Allen will be far enough into his new deal to justify restructuring/extending him. You can shrink that cap number substantially through those methods, and that should open up the space to re-invest in keeping that DL together. Those void years open up the ability to drop the current cap number to an absolutely minuscule figure, as long as you are willing to gamble current cash on a bet that (a) the player will stay effective for a few years and (b) the cap will continue to go up and up.

I never thought it would be possible to keep those 4 together that long — but in all fairness, I really hoped we’d have some other good youngish players who we’d have to pay as well. But the sad truth is that now that Terry is paid, we really don’t. And perhaps the even sadder truth is that we all assumed that Chase was a lock for a mega-contract. But at this point, we can’t even be certain he’s a candidate for an extension, let alone a mega-deal. 
 

In the end, I think the lesson of the last few years with this franchise (and this league) is this: you don’t let good talent leave, and you sort out the other details when you get there. Daron has added the (huge) missing piece of “legit pass-rush threat” to his arsenal, and he’s done it while being absolutely abused by a coaching staff and FO that hung both he and Allen out to dry by having no legit depth at their position. Those boys are both playing over 82% of the defensive snaps (Payne is at over 86%), which is criminal. One can only imagine what they’d be doing on a play-by-play basis if they had fresh legs and a chance to catch their breath.

A big part of this conversation too is what they plan to do at QB.  If they target another veteran QB that's going to eat up a ton of the cap.  If they draft a QB then we have a 4-5 year window of relatively cheap QB play.

[e16bball]

13 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

A big part of this conversation too is what they plan to do at QB.  If they target another veteran QB that's going to eat up a ton of the cap.  If they draft a QB then we have a 4-5 year window of relatively cheap QB play.

That is true.

At the moment, the only veteran QB that I would consider a realistic potential option is Derek Carr. And even that is fraught with issues, as he still languishes on the “Cousins level” of QB and would likely require both a significant trade package and a serious gamble of an extension/restructure to deflate those silly salary numbers.

We’ve seen this year (all year) what you get with the veteran retread options. A big up-front cap number that limits you, a major adjustment period that frustrates you, long-established flaws that hamstring you, and a staff that’s only partly bought-in on the guy. It’s just no way to do business. I would be hugely out on yet another “new guy” like Goff or Jimmy G or whomever else. Just get “our guy” and see if you can make it work. And if you can’t, then just go cheap. You could run it back with Howell and Heinicke for $5-7M tops, and you’d probably get at least 80-90% of the production you’d get out of some retread “name” for 500% the cost. Enough with the “novelty for the sake of novelty” SnyderSkin marketing ploy.

[lavar703]

You pay him. 

[turtle28]

Like @e16bball I have changed my stance on this & others on Twitter that I respect on projecting the cap & what we can afford just like E just pointed out have convinced me that we can re-sign both Payne & Sweat & layer it in such a way that it will work.

I’m with E that we need to get out of the signing a FA retread/trading for a vet QB market and draft a QB to develop & compete along with Heinicke & Howell. Heinicke shouldn’t cost more than $10 mil per year on a 3-year extension & may even be as cheap as $5 to $7 mil per year as E suggested.

I have to imagine that Wentz will be gone after this year unless he decides to restructure his contract & take a major pay cut to stay & compete w/ Heinicke to be the starter next year. 
 

I wouldn’t do that personally w/ Wentz, but Rivera & Mayhew may do that & Wentz may agree to it bc here he’ll still have a shot to win the starting job next year. I just hope that they’d bring that cap hit down to around $10 mil per year if that’s what they decide to do.

 

Plus, as E pointed out, who else are we going to pay on this team but Payne?

As E said, Kam should get re-signed & I would add Holcomb & Gibby to that list but none of those 3 will cost more than $10 mil or more a year.

We’ll be drafting a new LT within the next few years & new guards which will bring the cost of our OL down on offense. Fuller, if he’s kept after this contract won’t be as expensive on his next contract as he is right now. 
 

So, it makes all the sense in the world to give Payne the contract he has clearly earned this year. Then, if Tez earns an extension after playing well on his 5th year option next year, you re-sign him as well. And, you can restructure Jon Allen’s contract in 2024 as E pointed out to make even more cap room to add free agents/re-sign someone if we want to. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by turtle28

[ARTMONK HOF]

 

[ARTMONK HOF]

 

[ARTMONK HOF]

🤣🤣

[THESKINSFAN21]

Please sign him and Sweat, it can be done 😞

[lavar703]

2 hours ago, THESKINSFAN21 said:

Please sign him and Sweat, it can be done 😞

The Rams have signed contract extensions with like 35 players. We can afford 4 lol

 

[ARTMONK HOF]

11 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

The Rams have signed contract extensions with like 35 players. We can afford 4 lol

 

You’re right but we always seem to have some kind of an issue signing players. 😄

[turtle28]

3 hours ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

 

Makes 100% sense & next years cap for Payne will likely be $10 mil or less on a LTD.

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

The Rams have signed contract extensions with like 35 players. We can afford 4 lol

 

They Rams pay Stafford, Donald, Ramsey, Kupp & Wagner & who else?

They pay top $ to a QB, DT, #1 CB @ MLB other than that they don’t. It’s possible for us to do that or anyone, if you do though you have to draft & develop well like the Rams have been doing & like a lot of the best teams in the NFL do.