Week 14: Ravens @ Steelers

[AngusMcFife]

30 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

That doesn't make a ton of sense considering they both played and both didn't turn it over. So it's weird to say they were destined for a turnover when they played...and didn't turn it over.

Huntley did turn it over. On the 4th on 1, he mishandled the snap, was slow to bring the ball up, it it got knocked by Cleveland for a fumble. That's a turnover on downs, which is just as bad as any other kind of turnover.

[Ray Reed]

1 minute ago, AngusMcFife said:

Huntley did turn it over. On the 4th on 1, he mishandled the snap, was slow to bring the ball up, it it got knocked by Cleveland for a fumble. That's a turnover on downs, which is just as bad as any other kind of turnover.

Replay very clearly showed Ben Cleveland's arm knocking it out of his hand.

Regardless, I don't disagree. Still a TO in essence - I remember posting mid-game about how it was exactly the dumb type of turnover we've done countless times against the Steelers. So you're correct.

But I was specifically responding to the quote in the post that said "they seemed destined to turn it over", which in and of itself contextually infers he wasn't counting the TOD. 

[DreamKid]

Steelers have more $$$ invested in their defense than anyone right now- https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/defense/     

100 million dollar defense....

Goes to show not all investments are created equal. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

Replay very clearly showed Ben Cleveland's arm knocking it out of his hand.

I didn't see this when I watched the highlights just now. The ball was still in his hands until he hits Duvernay, then it comes loose. It doesn't matter too much, it was a garbage play call anyways.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I went through the highlights and watched most of our passing plays to see what we were doing. Curious if this matches what you all saw:

Quote   Quarter Time Remaining Down & Distance Notes 1 9:03 3rd and 2 I don't understand what Andrews or Duvernay are doing on this play. Andrews is the first read but his back is to the QB on his route. Duvernay is the 2nd read, but he's perpendicular to the LoS and staring at a LB for some reason. Huntley goes through both reads, then scrambles once the pocket starts to collapse. Whatever Andrews/Duvernay were being coached to do here was very strange... 1 4:52 3rd and 6 3rd and 6 and the primary route here (Likely) is a 2 yard hitch route? What even is this? Seems like Andrews was open on the speed out at the top of the screen but Huntley didn't trust the protection and started to panic after the first read wasn't there. 2 13:33 1st and 10 Another play where they go Trips with Andrews as the X by himself and run Andrews on a speed out. Again he looks open but the primary read is Josh Oliver running a 3 yard hitch route. For some reason Huntley just pump fakes the throw (maybe the DL was right in his face, hard to tell) and then takes the sack. 2 12:16 3rd and 5 Again trips with Andrews isolated. Looks like a bunch of mesh routes but ultimately what you get is 3 people within 2 yards of each other, with one of them running with his back turned right in front of a guy who's already turned on his hitch route. Huntley reads Likely first on a slant and it's not there, then waits and tries to come back to Andrews (who was once again open on the first move), then scrambles. This looks like another poorly designed pass play where the spacing/details are awful, but Andrews never seems to be the first read on these plays and he's been consistently open every time. 2 11:37 4th and 1 I just absolutely hate this play call, but the worst part is that I think it's actually supposed to be a fake WR jet sweep then hand to Kenyan Drake up the middle. The hole kind of opened up, but I just don't understand any aspect of this. Either you're calling a WR Jet Sweep on 4th and 1, or you're benching Gus Edwards to hand the ball off up the middle to Kenyan Drake on 4th and 1. Either way, Greg Roman costs us another possession with garbage play calling when if we convert this we're easily in FG range for Tucker. 2 4:06 3rd and 7 Again Trips bunch with Andrews isolated. Andrews now runs a 2-yard whip route on 3rd and 7 and is the primary target (why…???), but he's covered. The backside has a high/low with Robinson and Likely, but they're all covered easily as well because Drake's leak route takes him right where Robinson is. Luckily Huntley is able to escape and Desean Jackson is just standing wide open in the middle of nowhere lol 2 1:14 3rd and 7 Looks like a busted protection because nobody blocks 56 off the top edge. Also not sure why Demarcus Robinson is the first read here for Huntley when he's being pressed but Huntley looks to him first  then comes back to Likely on a 2 yard whip route but then has to run with the unblocked defender right in his face. Ultimately I don't know wtf this play is. Everyone is covered and the protection was screwed up. 3 13:39 3rd and 4 This isn't our offense but holy crap this is the most blatant OPI I have ever seen. Literally. Dude shoves Peters like 5 yards off of him when he's making his break 7 yards down the field. Unbelievable. 3 1:07 3rd and 9 This play stood no chance. Stanley gets demolished, the TE stunt against Cleveland and Moses beats both of them and Brown is getting pancaked by 3 guys before he even gets through his first read. Not a good look from the OL 4 8:30 3rd and 4 Literally the first play I've seen in these highlights where Andrews is the first target on a quick route over the middle. No idea why it took until the 4th quarter to figure this out. Easy 1st down… 4 4:04 3rd and 4 This play looks promising until Andrews turns completely around while blocking a DB for some reason, allowing that guy to easily disengage and sandwich Dobbins. If Andrews just stalk blocks like normal Dobbins probably out runs the LB to the edge

 

Basically what I saw was a bunch of passing plays using trips/bunch where Andrews is isolated and never the first read despite getting open on nearly all of his routes. Additionally, spacing issues are still prevalent, lots of 3rd downs where we run routes 5 yards short of the sticks, and overall it all just looks sloppy as usual.

Edited December 12, 2022 by AFlaccoSeagulls

[DreamKid]

@AFlaccoSeagulls Is the text going out of the borders of the post on your screen as well?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, DreamKid said:

@AFlaccoSeagulls Is the text going out of the borders of the post on your screen as well?

Yeah I think it's just beacuse I'm copy/pasting from Excel then formatting. I have finally found a way to break the CSS of this site  

[DreamKid]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I have finally found a way to break the CSS of this site  

Never seen that before, congrats trailblazer 😆.

[Ray Reed]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I didn't see this when I watched the highlights just now. The ball was still in his hands until he hits Duvernay, then it comes loose. It doesn't matter too much, it was a garbage play call anyways.

You couldn’t see it until the 3rd/4th replay angle when they were using the all 22 view. Probably would have to watch the rebroadcast to see it. Cleveland pulls and his left forearm/elbow immediately knocks the ball out of Huntley’s hands.

Cant knock him too much tho, Cleveland had a great game otherwise. And recovered another fumble he didn’t cause with that weird joint possession ruling 

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Ray Reed

[Ray Reed]

 speak of the devil

[DreamKid]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

Cant knock him too much tho, Cleveland had a great game otherwise.

Looked much better at RG(his natural college side) during the preseason and carried that play over to this game. 

I wanted Joe D fired if we didn't see better play from Powers or Cleveland this year. I've grown more than tired of the 15 or so middle round IOLs we've drafted in recent years JAGing it out season after season. Happy to see some progression from Powers, Cleveland, and even Colon. Not crowning anybody yet, but it's nice to see above average play at least. 

[DreamKid]

Baldy on our boys in the middle-

 

[Ray Reed]

28 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

Looked much better at RG(his natural college side) during the preseason and carried that play over to this game. 

I wanted Joe D fired if we didn't see better play from Powers or Cleveland this year. I've grown more than tired of the 15 or so middle round IOLs we've drafted in recent years JAGing it out season after season. Happy to see some progression from Powers, Cleveland, and even Colon. Not crowning anybody yet, but it's nice to see above average play at least. 

Definitely some very positive developments on the IOL this year. Wonder now if they’re comfortable letting Powers walk and plugging in Cleveland at LG?

We should also be giving James Urban his flowers. Tyler Huntley is an UDFA who has developed into one of the more solid QB2s in the league, and a rookie UDFA came in yesterday in Pittsburgh and looked totally composed rubbing the offense. Very impressed with how ready these seemingly unwanted QBs are coming in and playing for us on very short notice. That’s preparation all week.

 

[DreamKid]

12 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

We should also be giving James Urban his flowers. Tyler Huntley is an UDFA who has developed into one of the more solid QB2s in the league, and a rookie UDFA came in yesterday in Pittsburgh and looked totally composed rubbing the offense. Very impressed with how ready these seemingly unwanted QBs are coming in and playing for us on very short notice. That’s preparation all week

Excellent point.

[diamondbull424]

17 hours ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Historically, Lamar-led offenses have done better, but this year Lamar just isn't the same and I think we all see that (or should see that). I have less faith in Lamar this year than I ever have at any point. 

I think we’re now vastly overrating the level of that Steelers defense and also vastly overrating the level of regression Lamar has been in this season.

Heck PFF has Lamar rated an 85.2 on the season with Huntley at a 60.3 and considering Lamar’s rushing averages and what’s he had to work with from a weapons stand point, I think I’d probably say he’s more like a 77 rating, but he did start the season of incredibly hot and then he had a down spell and then IMO he was balancing things out the last few games right before the injury with smarter, more mistake free football.

Huntley had some of the same misfires only instead of misfires to Josh Oliver, they were misfires to Andrews. Only Huntley struggles to get zip on his throws outside the hashes and he’s essentially old Big Ben with a seeming inability to push the ball downfield.

6 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

It's not Lamar hatred. It was me thinking back to how previous Steelers/Ravens games have gone the past few years and thinking about how different this game would have been even with 1 TO from our offense.

I don't think a single person in here outside of maybe yourself spent as much time in NFL gen during the offseasons arguing with morons who were trashing Lamar for the past 4 years than myself. This notion that I'm anti-Lamar isn't accurate at all. I was leading the charge in NFL gen when I thought he wasn't getting his fair shake. This year I've seen a considerable regression, so I'm going to point it out. Some people on here clearly can't handle that. It's whatever. But I don't have this anti-Lamar agenda. 

I'm open to the discussion and the debate/points you made above. Maybe you're right. The one thing I would disagree with is  

"Huntley looked destined to have a turnover this game as well. Same with Anthony Brown."

That doesn't make a ton of sense considering they both played and both didn't turn it over. So it's weird to say they were destined for a turnover when they played...and didn't turn it over.

Your other numbers make a compelling point. Again, my post was nothing more than speculating and thinking back to Lamar having 6 turnovers in 3 games against the Steelers, and how we played "training wheels" offense with our QBs this week which limited big plays but also mitigated chances for the back-breaking TOs that have sunk us in our 4 game losing streak to Pittsburgh.

People don't have to agree with what I say, but the "you just hate Lamar bro" thing is just ridiculous. So is other posters going "hurrrr durrr CUCK SMITHHHHHHH" anytime I say something about Lamar that hurts their feelings. 

If it’s not hatred then it’s weird to say Lamar would fumble the bag against like the 24th best defense in the league that got very little pass rush and with us having an elite run game the entire time.

With the way JKD was tearing it up and the OL was dominating, Lamar likely opens up even more room with his run threat. Giving even more passing lanes.

The Steelers 24th ranked defense that was mainly good against the ground got dominated. Their pass defense isn’t impressive. Just because our backups barely won, doesn’t mean Lamar can’t toss an interception and still win by 2 scores because our offense drops 30 on the Steelers instead of just 16.

Lamar has historically played against much superior defensive versions than this iteration and of recent note hasn’t had the type of run game we had yesterday.