Soggust Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Soggust said: So the Ravens went from needing... A week 18 win and a BUF loss to CIN to.... A week 18 win and a coin flip? Please don't rip that ^^ just making a joke I know that's not your point you dont have to defend it lol Edited January 7, 2023 by Soggust 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillSabre Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Soggust said: * Edited January 7, 2023 by BillSabre Dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillSabre Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Soggust said: * Edited January 7, 2023 by BillSabre Dp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillSabre Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 39 minutes ago, Soggust said: Didn't KC lose out on the ability to control HFA with a Buffalo loss? The same way the Ravens lost out on their ability to control HFA with a CIN loss? The only difference is we don't need to win a coinflip, we now have to rely on other teams losing to solidify HFA. Plus, once the game was cancelled, KC might have been the biggest loser considering my understanding is that we should have control of HFA + Bye according to cancellation policy, but the league literally made a one time exception to make other teams feel better. This is not me complaining. Everyone got it bad in some ways. You can argue KC might have even got it the least bad, comparatively, but it's not like anyone is really making out like bandits here. I’m trying to put a Lego space station together with my kids so my brain is NOT working at 100% capacity right now but KC didn’t have control of HFA until the game was canceled. Now they do. Win and you get the bye. I’d say that’s making out pretty good. There’s a few scenarios where the Championship isn’t played at Arrowhead but it’s not played at your opponents house either. I’d stand firm on KC coming out of this smelling like roses while the other teams have a gripe for sure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Just now, BillSabre said: I’m trying to put a Lego space station together with my kids so my brain is NOT working at 100% capacity right now but KC didn’t have control of HFA until the game was canceled. Now they do. Win and you get the bye. I’d say that’s making out pretty good. There’s a few scenarios where the Championship isn’t played at Arrowhead but it’s not played at your opponents house either. I’d stand firm on KC coming out of this smelling like roses while the other teams have a gripe for sure. Sure, but it was cancelled, and not due in any part to the Chiefs. So, according to the pre-existing policy, KC should be controlling their own destiny with a bye, but our HFA is being potentially limited in some of the more likely scenarios. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillSabre Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 8 minutes ago, Soggust said: Sure, but it was cancelled, and not due in any part to the Chiefs. So, according to the pre-existing policy, KC should be controlling their own destiny with a bye, but our HFA is being potentially limited in some of the more likely scenarios. Ok, just to be clear, there was a crazy health scare that wasn’t due to any team. With that being said, a game was canceled and everybody has the right to complain because the outcome of that game affected a lot. My point is KC came out of the scrum better than the rest of the teams. I’m not sure but I feel like it was you just a few days ago debating with me how the bye is much more important than HFA and that good teams can play anywhere. So, if it was you, then you’d have to agree that KC came out smelling like roses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, BillSabre said: Ok, just to be clear, there was a crazy health scare that wasn’t due to any team. With that being said, a game was canceled and everybody has the right to complain because the outcome of that game affected a lot. My point is KC came out of the scrum better than the rest of the teams. I’m not sure but I feel like it was you just a few days ago debating with me how the bye is much more important than HFA and that good teams can play anywhere. So, if it was you, then you’d have to agree that KC came out smelling like roses. You seem to be solely looking at the decision to cancel the game, in which I agree - KC came out better than anyone, imo. But I feel like you are ignoring that they literally modified the pre-existing rules mid-week in order to mitigate the benefits to the Chiefs. Is the bye better than HFA? I think so. But we had a chance at both and could argue should have both. I'm just saying, when you look at the totality of circumstances, everyone can find a reason to complain. KC might have benefited the most from the game being cancelled and might have gotten hurt the most from the mid-week rule changes. -------------------- To me, in the end, what makes this conversation the most difficult is that every single thing we are talking about is still projecting certain wins/situations. Obviously, these rule changes have influenced the %s of what happens, but everything still is up to chance. So I want to sit here and argue that we will get the bye/hfa because of so and so, but really if KC goes out and loses today - what are we even talking about? So finally, it leads me to think one of two things - 1) Either the % difference in scenarios is small enough that whatever advantage we are really talking about can't taint the season, so I really have no reason to complain 2) I can't tell how much advantage it is until we see how it plays out and if HFA will even apply, etc, so it's hard for me to effectively debate the value at the moment ------------ tldr; - I don't know how to calculate the edge. Even if it's possible you are right that certain teams edged others in value overall, I still believe each team involved can find a valid reason to complain. Edited January 7, 2023 by Soggust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillSabre Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, Soggust said: You seem to be solely looking at the decision to cancel the game, in which I agree - KC came out better than anyone, imo. But I feel like you are ignoring that they literally modified the pre-existing rules mid-week in order to mitigate the benefits to the Chiefs. Is the bye better than HFA? I think so. But we had a chance at both and could argue should have both. I'm just saying, when you look at the totality of circumstances, everyone can find a reason to complain. KC might have benefited the most from the game being cancelled and might have gotten hurt the most from the mid-week rule changes. -------------------- To me, in the end, what makes this conversation the most difficult is that every single thing we are talking about is still projecting certain wins/situations. Obviously, these rule changes have influenced the %s of what happens, but everything still is up to chance. So I want to sit here and argue that we will get the bye/hfa because of so and so, but really if KC goes out and loses today - what are we even talking about? So finally, it leads me to think one of two things - 1) Either the % difference in scenarios is small enough that whatever advantage we are really talking about can't taint the season, so I really have no reason to complain 2) I can't tell how much advantage it is until we see how it plays out and if HFA will even apply, etc, so it's hard for me to effectively debate the value at the moment ------------ tldr; - I don't know how to calculate the edge. Even if it's possible you are right that certain teams edged others in value overall, I still believe each team involved can find a valid reason to complain. I’m honestly tired of talking about it. I hope the Raiders win today and the Bills and Bengals win tomorrow. Then everything will be as close to right as possible for the playoffs with no coin flips or neutral sites. Then the Bengals will truly be the only team that has to say what if because in this scenario they might’ve been the 1 seed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Ray Reed said: It’s wild seeing some people label the Ravens “winners” in this thread lol The Ravens had the opportunity of winning the division outright and guaranteeing a home playoff game taken away because the Bills/Bengals game wasn’t resumed. Now we have to win a game and win a coin flip in order to get that home game. If the game was played and the Bills won MNF, and the Ravens won Sunday, the Ravens would have been outright AFC North Champs via every tie breaker. The Ravens and Bengals both have 11 wins if the Ravens win Sunday. The Ravens at 11-6, the Bengals at 11-5. The Ravens would be 4-2 in the division and 2-0 against the Bengals in that case. The Bengals would be 2-4 in the division and 0-2 against the Ravens while having the same number of wins (11). What not resuming the game did to the Ravens was ensure the Bengals the division title solely by virtue of playing less games. The teams could have potentially ended with the same number of wins, with the Ravens winning the division on division record and H2H. Bengals fans have a right to be upset about the situation but the consistent “the bengals are the only ones in this situation who are losing an opportunity, everyone else is gaining an opportunity” is 100% wrong. If all 17 games were played the Ravens could have won the division outright without any coin flip. It is what it is. It doesn’t even probably end up mattering because I think the Ravens will be resting starters now that the opportunity to win the division outright and secure the 3 seed is impossible so the coin toss is pretty unlikely imo. The Bengals fans acting like they are getting slighted in favor of the big bad Ravens is funny to read though I get where you are coming from. but that's also assuming two things. The Bills would have won Monday's game and you win tomorrow. In my heart of hearts, I don't think we lose that game if Hamlin had, say a concussion, or if it had been resumed. Micah Hyde was out, Poyer was less than 100%, and they had lost two DBs including Hamlin. The reason I would say the blow is softened is simply because if you won the coin flip, you'd still get the home game while also keeping the second place schedule next year. In essence, our AFCN championship was something on a t shirt or hat without reaping the real benefits of it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 28 minutes ago, INbengalfan said: I get where you are coming from. but that's also assuming two things. The Bills would have won Monday's game and you win tomorrow. In my heart of hearts, I don't think we lose that game if Hamlin had, say a concussion, or if it had been resumed. Micah Hyde was out, Poyer was less than 100%, and they had lost two DBs including Hamlin. The reason I would say the blow is softened is simply because if you won the coin flip, you'd still get the home game while also keeping the second place schedule next year. In essence, our AFCN championship was something on a t shirt or hat without reaping the real benefits of it. Yeah the entire situation is really screwing almost every team involved in some sort of way. I definitely get why Bengals/Bills/etc fans are all perturbed as well. Just felt like I should throw out how the Ravens got screwed since I was reading a good amount of posts brushing that off and even some calling them “winners” haha. Cincy prob wins by 10+ tomorrow though so hopefully that at least mitigates the weird situation within the AFC North. From that point there is still some screwage that’s gonna happen throughout the playoffs most likely unfortunately 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Soggust said: Sure, but it was cancelled, and not due in any part to the Chiefs. So, according to the pre-existing policy, KC should be controlling their own destiny with a bye, but our HFA is being potentially limited in some of the more likely scenarios. Here's the thing. If you look at KC's situation before and after it's 1. They needed the Bills to lose to gain the 1 seed. Now without a Bills loss they control the one seed and control their destiny when they previously lost a tiebreaker to the Bills. Which effectively gives them a playoff win with the bye. 2. They had a scenario where they could lose this week and the Bengals win twice and they go all the way down to the 3 seed. They are now completely protected from that scenario. 3. The only downside they have is potentially going from HFA in an AFCCG (that they got to control the destiny of because of the no contest) to a neutral field. Which is something that exists for the Bills and Bengals who also had a shot at the 1 seed prior to this. So the only negative is something that effects all the teams. By comparison, the Bengals have a shot at possibly having to get all the downsides of winning the division while also going on the road in the wildcard game. The Chiefs will never have to play on the road all playoffs now and at worst might play one neutral game and they get the bye mostly because of what happened to a Bills player. I think most Chiefs fans would have taken that deal before the game as opposed to potentially having to play an extra playoff game if the Bills won and being at risk of going to the three seed if they lost this week and the Bengals won twice. Edited January 7, 2023 by lancerman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, lancerman said: Here's the thing. If you look at KC's situation before and after it's 1. They needed the Bills to lose to gain the 1 seed. Now without a Bills loss they control the one seed and control their destiny when they previously lost a tiebreaker to the Bills. Which effectively gives them a playoff win with the bye. 2. They had a scenario where they could lose this week and the Bengals win twice and they go all the way down to the 3 seed. They are now completely protected from that scenario. 3. The only downside they have is potentially going from HFA in an AFCCG (that they got to control the destiny of because of the no contest) to a neutral field. Which is something that exists for the Bills and Bengals who also had a shot at the 1 seed prior to this. So the only negative is something that effects all the teams. By comparison, the Bengals have a shot at possibly having to get all the downsides of winning the division while also going on the road in the wildcard game. So why have rules for a cancelled game if you're just going to scrap them and vote on a one-off proposal to try to mitigate the benefits awarded? You're looking at it pre-Monday and trying to spread to effects of the Hamlin injury fairly across other teams that weren't involved. I'm saying the game got cancelled. There was a procedure already in place. They literally voted to change that mid-week and only for this specific year lol. I can see why the Chiefs/Bengals might be upset about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluhartz Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 7 hours ago, Ray Reed said: It’s wild seeing some people label the Ravens “winners” in this thread lol The Ravens had the opportunity of winning the division outright and guaranteeing a home playoff game taken away because the Bills/Bengals game wasn’t resumed. Now we have to win a game and win a coin flip in order to get that home game. If the game was played and the Bills won MNF, and the Ravens won Sunday, the Ravens would have been outright AFC North Champs via every tie breaker. The Ravens and Bengals both have 11 wins if the Ravens win Sunday. The Ravens at 11-6, the Bengals at 11-5. The Ravens would be 4-2 in the division and 2-0 against the Bengals in that case. The Bengals would be 2-4 in the division and 0-2 against the Ravens while having the same number of wins (11). What not resuming the game did to the Ravens was ensure the Bengals the division title solely by virtue of playing less games. The teams could have potentially ended with the same number of wins, with the Ravens winning the division on division record and H2H. Bengals fans have a right to be upset about the situation but the consistent “the bengals are the only ones in this situation who are losing an opportunity, everyone else is gaining an opportunity” is 100% wrong. If all 17 games were played the Ravens could have won the division outright without any coin flip. It is what it is. It doesn’t even probably end up mattering because I think the Ravens will be resting starters now that the opportunity to win the division outright and secure the 3 seed is impossible so the coin toss is pretty unlikely imo. The Bengals fans acting like they are getting slighted in favor of the big bad Ravens is funny to read though As a Bengals fan, I couldn't agree with you more. It stinks for everyone as far as standings. Bengals lost out on a chance to be the #1 seed and the Ravens lost out on a chance to be the AFCNorth champs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeptunePenguins Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 Damn seems everyone I know is pissed at what the NFL is doing one way or another. Guy I know feels that the top seeds should get the home games no matter what and that the Bills/Bengals/Ravens should just take what they get and not complain since that is how life works. But eh. Anyways I personally have no clue what should happen. Eh let's get these games played first I suppose. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.