2018 QBs

[dawgdish]

20 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

Ugh.  It appears I was wrong about Nassib, and we know how much I hate being wrong.  I don't know about drafting a DE, but this draft is DEEP at DE so now could be the time, maybe even in the third or fourth round to someone falling from tier 2.

The Jaguars and Rams seemed to draft nothing but D-line over the past 5 years, and it's finally paying off. The Steelers have seemed to take a pass rusher in the first 1-3 rounds of every draft since the 90s and are consistently good. If there's a good pass rusher staring us in the face as BPA, we should take him. The more we consistently terrorize the QB, the better off our entire team will be. Having a guy come in when Myles or Ogbah need a breather or are hurt and not losing a step would be amazing, or you can get creative on passing downs with all 3.

[NudeTayne]

1 minute ago, dawgdish said:

The Jaguars and Rams seemed to draft nothing but D-line over the past 5 years, and it's finally paying off. The Steelers have seemed to take a pass rusher in the first 1-3 rounds of every draft since the 90s and are consistently good. If there's a good pass rusher staring us in the face as BPA, we should take him. The more we consistently terrorize the QB, the better off our entire team will be. Having a guy come in when Myles or Ogbah need a breather or are hurt and not losing a step would be amazing, or you can get creative on passing downs with all 3.

I agree with all this; it's great to have another pass rusher, especially with Ogbah being known primarily as being more of a "complete"--almost an insult, right?--defensive end rather than "pass rusher".  That said, what we're all considering is whether having another great pass rusher when we already have solid starters is worth taking over a position where we are completely weak--WR, CB, S etc.  Would you take someone like Bradley Chubb over the top CB, the top WR etc.?  It's a tough one, though I hope we're picking high enough with our Texans pick that this is our problem.

[dawgdish]

3 minutes ago, NudeTayne said:

I agree with all this; it's great to have another pass rusher, especially with Ogbah being known primarily as being more of a "complete"--almost an insult, right?--defensive end rather than "pass rusher".  That said, what we're all considering is whether having another great pass rusher when we already have solid starters is worth taking over a position where we are completely weak--WR, CB, S etc.  Would you take someone like Bradley Chubb over the top CB, the top WR etc.?  It's a tough one, though I hope we're picking high enough with our Texans pick that this is our problem.

If they are pretty much of an equal draft grade and each could conceivably be considered BPA at that slot, I'd definitely take the CB or WR over the DE in this draft, but I'd rather take a top tier guy like Chubb over a second tier WR or CB.  

[brownie man]

4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

You make it seem as if being 6'4" is something rare or valuable.

There are lots of 6'4 QB's no one cares about.

Would you honestly rate Rosen as high if he was Mayfield’s height?

[MWil23]

Just now, brownie man said:

Would you honestly rate Rosen as high if he was Mayfield’s height?

Would you rate Kizer as high if he was Mayfield's height? Measurables matter, like it or not. If Kizer was 6'1, he wouldn't have even been a Round 2 draft pick based upon his college tape and system.

[Mastercheddaar]

35 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

The Jaguars and Rams seemed to draft nothing but D-line over the past 5 years, and it's finally paying off. The Steelers have seemed to take a pass rusher in the first 1-3 rounds of every draft since the 90s and are consistently good. If there's a good pass rusher staring us in the face as BPA, we should take him. The more we consistently terrorize the QB, the better off our entire team will be. Having a guy come in when Myles or Ogbah need a breather or are hurt and not losing a step would be amazing, or you can get creative on passing downs with all 3.

Steelers can afford to do this because they have a complete team. I agree building one area and being awesome at it would be good but the Browns don't have four walls or a foundation yet to support it. 

That is all

mastercheddaar

[MWil23]

39 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

The Jaguars and Rams seemed to draft nothing but D-line over the past 5 years, and it's finally paying off.

It's finally paying off because Jared Goff is playing at an elite level that looks like he's the #1 pick of the draft and taking full advantage of newly acquired skill players like Kupp and Watkins. They were a dumpster fire with all of those elite D-Line guys before that.

39 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

The Steelers have seemed to take a pass rusher in the first 1-3 rounds of every draft since the 90s and are consistently good.

While having one of the best defensive coordinators of all time, a HOF coach under Cowher, another great coach in Tomlin, and a future HOF QB in Big Ben.

39 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

If there's a good pass rusher staring us in the face as BPA, we should take him.

Not over a franchise QB we shouldn't. That's ludicrous.

39 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

The more we consistently terrorize the QB, the better off our entire team will be.

Unless we don't have any semblance of offense just like every other Browns team outside of years like 2002 and 2007.

39 minutes ago, dawgdish said:

Having a guy come in when Myles or Ogbah need a breather or are hurt and not losing a step would be amazing, or you can get creative on passing downs with all 3.

Not with the 1st round draft pick. Those guys can be had later in the draft (Lawson in Cinci for example) or via free agency.

[Aztec Hammer]

44 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Would you rate Kizer as high if he was Mayfield's height? Measurables matter, like it or not. If Kizer was 6'1, he wouldn't have even been a Round 2 draft pick based upon his college tape and system.

That was the first thing I thought. Kizer's main positives are that he's a big guy and has a strong arm. Rosen's main positives are that he's accurate and good at reading defenses.

I know which combination I prefer.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

52 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Would you honestly rate Rosen as high if he was Mayfield’s height?

Of course not, height matters, but it's not the only reason people like him.

[brownie man]

49 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Would you rate Kizer as high if he was Mayfield's height? Measurables matter, like it or not. If Kizer was 6'1, he wouldn't have even been a Round 2 draft pick based upon his college tape and system.

I actually watched Kizer and liked his game coming out

Theres not much when I watch Rosen that impresses me 

Darnold impresses me 

Mayfield impresses me 

Lamar Jackson impresses me 

Rosen has the Christian Ponder/ Blaine Gabbert/ effect. He looks the part but he’s actually not all that good

at least to me 

I’d rather take Mayfield later  

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, brownie man said:

I actually watched Kizer and liked his game coming out

But I bet you liked him because he was 6'4 and 230 with a rocket arm. That's what I'm getting at.

4 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Theres not much when I watch Rosen that impresses me 

Except he looks great in a Pro Style offense, is very accurate, can go through at least 3 progressions, can audible at the line, and has an above average arm. He reminds me a lot of Matt Ryan in his best case scenario and worst case scenario I still see him as a lesser armed Jay Cutler...too risky, potentially dooshy personality, etc. 

4 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Darnold impresses me 

Agreed

4 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Mayfield impresses me 

He's an immature punk lacking elite measurables that plays in a spread system if you hate him. If you love him, you see a fiery competitor who is a gunslinger that plays with a chip on his shoulder. 

4 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Lamar Jackson impresses me 

Questions include: Can he throw from the pocket? Can he improve his accuracy? Will his game translate to the NFL? Will his frame improve/hold up to an NFL hit/schedule? Can his mechanics be ironed out? Too many unknowns for the Browns who need someone to play DAY 1. He will be better off elsewhere.

4 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Rosen has the Christian Ponder/ Blaine Gabbert/ effect. He looks the part but he’s actually not all that good

I never thought Gabbert or Ponder came close to looking the part and saw them both play A LOT in college.

4 minutes ago, brownie man said:

I’d rather take Mayfield later  

We've done this every year since 1999. When will this organization/team learn that we should probably draft a QB higher than 22 overall? It's RIDICULOUS.

[Aztec Hammer]

I agree with all of that. We've still got until January 15th before we find out who's staying and who's coming out.

A lot can happen between now and then. Bowl games. Staff overhauls. Front office overhauls.

It will be interesting. In a way it might be a very good thing if all of those prospects play fantastically for the rest of the season.

Create enough doubt about who's going number one and they might all feel safe enough to enter a draft in which the Browns pick first!

[Mastercheddaar]

1 hour ago, brownie man said:

I actually watched Kizer and liked his game coming out

Theres not much when I watch Rosen that impresses me 

Darnold impresses me 

Mayfield impresses me 

Lamar Jackson impresses me 

Rosen has the Christian Ponder/ Blaine Gabbert/ effect. He looks the part but he’s actually not all that good

at least to me 

I’d rather take Mayfield later  

Kizer had size arm strength and velocity coming out of college. There was a reason he was available in the 2nd where we picked him. Probably could have waited til the 3rd. Not saying he won't be a decent starter one day but we handled it wrong. Should have cut Brock, kept McCown, and sat Kizer. 

Rosen has a lot of good qualities going for him and he is putting up great numbers on a garbage pac 12 team. His pocket, accuracy, ability to read defenses and his ability to get rid of the ball are superior to Kizer's. To me he could be the #1 pick in the draft and I would not be mad. 

Darnold has all of the qualities of Rosen and the wow factor to pull big ben extend the drive type plays out his rear end. He should be our #1 pick. 

Mayfield does not impress me. In the beginning he had a "OOO who's this?" appeal but that quickly wore off. He is a man child, not a leader. 

Lamar Jackson is Mike Vick in a league where defenses learned how to stop Mike Vick. 

AND No, do not take Mayfield later in the draft. That is how we got Weedone and Manziel. We need to quit trying to turn the bargain bid rookie QBs into our franchise QB. It might work if we had an established starter but we do not. We need someone who can either start day one or usurp a vet journeyman by week 4. 

Lastly, what about Kirk Cousins? Why hasn't his name been entered into the mix? We could tell him, we are planning on spending a lot of cap space on FA WRs and using picks for WR, RB, OL, etc. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

[Aztec Hammer]

2 minutes ago, Mastercheddaar said:

Kizer had size arm strength and velocity coming out of college. There was a reason he was available in the 2nd where we picked him. Probably could have waited til the 3rd. Not saying he won't be a decent starter one day but we handled it wrong. Should have cut Brock, kept McCown, and sat Kizer. 

Rosen has a lot of good qualities going for him and he is putting up great numbers on a garbage pac 12 team. His pocket, accuracy, ability to read defenses and his ability to get rid of the ball are superior to Kizer's. To me he could be the #1 pick in the draft and I would not be mad. 

Darnold has all of the qualities of Rosen and the wow factor to pull big ben extend the drive type plays out his rear end. He should be our #1 pick. 

Mayfield does not impress me. In the beginning he had a "OOO who's this?" appeal but that quickly wore off. He is a man child, not a leader. 

Lamar Jackson is Mike Vick in a league where defenses learned how to stop Mike Vick. 

AND No, do not take Mayfield later in the draft. That is how we got Weedone and Manziel. We need to quit trying to turn the bargain bid rookie QBs into our franchise QB. It might work if we had an established starter but we do not. We need someone who can either start day one or usurp a vet journeyman by week 4. 

Lastly, what about Kirk Cousins? Why hasn't his name been entered into the mix? We could tell him, we are planning on spending a lot of cap space on FA WRs and using picks for WR, RB, OL, etc. 

That is all

Mastercheddaar

I don't know, I think personally I'm glad we didn't keep McCown and sit Kizer. Josh has done a decent job for the Jets and may well have won us enough games to keep us out of draft contention and treading water all over again. Meanwhile we'd then probably have stuck Kizer in for 2018/19 and he'd go through the same struggle. Though this is coming from someone who believes Kizer will never be an average NFL QB. I think it all would've just set us back another two years. As much as the losing hurts, at least it has had the dual effect of seeing what the late second round flyer QB had whilst setting us up for the #1 overall in a QB heavy class.

[NudeTayne]

5 hours ago, MWil23 said:

a fiery competitor who is a gunslinger that plays with a chip on his shoulder. 

baker