Louis Friend Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 No disrespect, but I really don't see things the way Daniel Jeremiah does. 😂 Daniel Jeremiah had us mocked to take Anthony Richardson at #6 (even though he's his 14th ranked prospect) last week and two days later changed his mind when asked about the mock draft. 😂 He posts stuff for clicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 17 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: It's hard to say really. I am more of a "production" guy but traits can definitely factor into how good a player COULD be (vs what they are). It'd be super easy to just say "any player that hasn't produced x at their position is going to be bad" but there's a lot of situational stuff you have to factor in. How good was the coaching? What were they being asked to do within the scheme? How do they determine playing time (such as Iowa leaning into older players first even if younger player is much better)? Now that we'll have a new DL coach, I'm not sure if he'd make sense for us since I don't know how well our DL coach can develop players with limited experience. If Van Ness was an OL, I'd be much more comfortable putting him with Hank and letting those physical tools turn into elite level skills. I'm more of a production + traits guy. If you aren't producing, why? What are your instincts and natural feel for the game? What are your strengths? How will those strengths match up in the NFL to guys who are bigger, faster, and better than college? What are your weaknesses? Are they things that can be coached? What held you back? How did you address those things? It's not just raw stats. LVN has some stats, especially for being a rotational guy. But he wasn't a rotational guy because the line was stacked like Georgia. I would love for someone to ask why he wasn't a starter and why they kept moving him around. Was it a scheme issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 LVN: PFF OVR: 79.6 PFF RUN: 79.5 PFF PRSH: 75.2 Pressure % - 17.4% (8th best in class) Sack % - 3.3% Hits - 2.5% Hurries - 11.6% Batted - 0% Stop - 9.1% He's above average in essentially every important category. He's shown that he can get to the QB and create pressure in a limited sample size. PFF is giving him more credit against the run that I would have expected. So if anything ,you're getting a guy that you can play on 1st and 2nd down with room to grow as a pass-rusher who is going to generate pressure while he's on the field. He had 242 pass-rush snaps vs other guys in this class: - Tyree Wilson > 261 - Nolan Smith > 109 - Will McDonald > 240 - Myles Murphy > 288 - Will Anderson > 344 Anderson is the outlier, otherwise his snap counts are actually not all that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, Louis Friend said: No disrespect, but I really don't see things the way Daniel Jeremiah does. 😂 Daniel Jeremiah had us mocked to take Anthony Richardson at #6 (even though he's his 14th ranked prospect) last week and two days later changed his mind when asked about the mock draft. 😂 He posts stuff for clicks. I get the reasoning behind why he would have us taking AR where he does. I don't agree with it because I think we need to build up the roster and build around Goff (and for our eventual QBOTF). From his perspective, Goff has a ceiling and we have another 1st round pick, so he figures if you can get Richardson, let him sit for a year and then he becomes Jalen Hurts 2.0, it is a significant upgrade at the most important position in football. He might be right and AR might turn out to be a future HOFer but it's not a risk I'm willing to take and I don't think it's necessary. I think he does go through his process of evaluating players as he would do on a team but he is also a media guy and he's generating content for 32 teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 4 minutes ago, Louis Friend said: I'm more of a production + traits guy. If you aren't producing, why? What are your instincts and natural feel for the game? What are your strengths? How will those strengths match up in the NFL to guys who are bigger, faster, and better than college? What are your weaknesses? Are they things that can be coached? What held you back? How did you address those things? It's not just raw stats. LVN has some stats, especially for being a rotational guy. But he wasn't a rotational guy because the line was stacked like Georgia. I would love for someone to ask why he wasn't a starter and why they kept moving him around. Was it a scheme issue? DJ did ask that question.... "Jeremiah continually called Van Ness "explosive" and has no concerns regarding him not starting at Iowa; that was largely a case of the way the Hawkeyes run their program, offering starting preference to veterans while the third-year sophomore Van Ness caught the short end of the stick." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Louis Friend said: I'm more of a production + traits guy. If you aren't producing, why? What are your instincts and natural feel for the game? What are your strengths? How will those strengths match up in the NFL to guys who are bigger, faster, and better than college? What are your weaknesses? Are they things that can be coached? What held you back? How did you address those things? It's not just raw stats. LVN has some stats, especially for being a rotational guy. But he wasn't a rotational guy because the line was stacked like Georgia. I would love for someone to ask why he wasn't a starter and why they kept moving him around. Was it a scheme issue? Because I don't get access to players, really understand the ins-and-outs of what the Lions are and what they want to do (outside of seeing what they have done in the past and assuming this translates to the future), locker room chemistry, in person interviews in draft process, etc. I just utilize production and traits, weigh against the draft class and try to determine which of these are the most important in player's success at that position. I probably lean towards production but it is circumstantial. Note: When it comes to smaller school guys, I will lean more into traits than production. They won't have the same level of coaching, training staff, etc. I don't ever consider the number of stars that a player was coming out of HS. We've seen HOF guys come from being a 2 star and 5 star, #1 overall prospect in their class fail out. Edited February 27, 2023 by Karnage84 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 27 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: I get the reasoning behind why he would have us taking AR where he does. I don't agree with it because I think we need to build up the roster and build around Goff (and for our eventual QBOTF). From his perspective, Goff has a ceiling and we have another 1st round pick, so he figures if you can get Richardson, let him sit for a year and then he becomes Jalen Hurts 2.0, it is a significant upgrade at the most important position in football. He might be right and AR might turn out to be a future HOFer but it's not a risk I'm willing to take and I don't think it's necessary. Jalen Hurts was a second round pick. When's the last time a QB went top 5/6 and sat for a year? Last QB I remember going top ten and sitting was Patrick Mahomes and KC was already a powerhouse under Andy Reid and could afford moving up to do so. Usually stash QB's go end of first round or more likely day 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sllim Pickens Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Karnage84 said: https://www.si.com/nfl/falcons/news/atlanta-falcons-mock-draft-lukas-van-ness-daniel-jeremiah-fit-target-combine DJ has Van Ness going to the Falcons at #8 in his mock. Maybe it's a mistake. Maybe he's what you guys are saying he is.... but I think he's going top 12 at a minimum. Walker: He was a raw prospect and it's only been one year. We can properly evaluate that decision after another 2 seasons. Ansah: He was constantly injured. He showed flashes at times of what he could have been but definitely inconsistent. The number of athletic freaks that turn out seems to be significantly lower than the “lesser athletic” guys with solid production in college that excel in the NFL. Maybe one or two turn out, but they usually flash potential and never are consistent enough to be productive. if I am the Jags, I’d much rather be going into season 2 with Hutch, Kaveon, or Davis. DJ likes to be different, and he can have this one but I don’t want him that high. Let someone else flip the coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted February 28, 2023 Share Posted February 28, 2023 51 minutes ago, Sllim Pickens said: The number of athletic freaks that turn out seems to be significantly lower than the “lesser athletic” guys with solid production in college that excel in the NFL. Maybe one or two turn out, but they usually flash potential and never are consistent enough to be productive. if I am the Jags, I’d much rather be going into season 2 with Hutch, Kaveon, or Davis. DJ likes to be different, and he can have this one but I don’t want him that high. Let someone else flip the coin. Hey, if he does go top ten, it should push another player down to us at #18. I'm all for it. Also why I hope 5 QB's go first off the board. 😂 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Louis Friend said: Hey, if he does go top ten, it should push another player down to us at #18. I'm all for it. Also why I hope 5 QB's go first off the board. 😂 I'm thinking 3 QBs + Carter + Anderson go in the top 5. I could also see Tyree Wilson go in there - either instead of a QB or ahead of Anderson. This is not how I view things but guessing on what teams could do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 28, 2023 Author Share Posted February 28, 2023 14 hours ago, Louis Friend said: Jalen Hurts was a second round pick. When's the last time a QB went top 5/6 and sat for a year? Last QB I remember going top ten and sitting was Patrick Mahomes and KC was already a powerhouse under Andy Reid and could afford moving up to do so. Usually stash QB's go end of first round or more likely day 2. We have Jared Goff, don't need a QB to play right away and have the luxury of a second 1st round pick. Lamar only started 7 games his rookie season. Mahomes sat for a year. I'm not suggesting it's what I want or think it's what the Lions should do - I just see the logic/reasoning behind it. It's not completely out to lunch (especially if he hits) but it's not how I would go about trying to build out the roster and improve the team. Richardson has some tools but I don't want a rushing QB. If you draft him, you're hoping that lightning strikes twice and that you're drafting Josh Allen. That's a big if. We can't get hung up on where guys were drafted - that's either who they were at the time of the draft or who teams thought they were. Players develop, they progress, they regress. Some guys outplay their draft position and other guys bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 Arrest warrant issued for Jalen Carter. Was involved with car racing that killed two people, fled the scene and lied to police, according to reports. How will this affect his draft stock? Does he drop? Do you still want him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionArkie Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 21 minutes ago, Louis Friend said: Arrest warrant issued for Jalen Carter. Was involved with car racing that killed two people, fled the scene and lied to police, according to reports. How will this affect his draft stock? Does he drop? Do you still want him? I'd hate to be his agent right about now. I think it depends on his involvement. Was he driving or in the car? Or a bystander actively watching the races? Both scenarios will probably make him fall a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LionArkie Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 I guess he was driving: Quote Details of the investigation, released Wednesday, cited evidence that Carter and LeCroy were "operating their vehicles in a manner consistent with racing" shortly before the crash. "The evidence demonstrated that both vehicles switched between lanes, drove in the center turn lane, drove in opposite lanes of travel, overtook other motorists, and drove at high rates of speed, in an apparent attempt to outdistance each other," the police statement said. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35760585/warrants-arrest-jalen-carter-ex-georgia-star-nfl-draft-prospect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis Friend Posted March 1, 2023 Share Posted March 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, LionArkie said: I'd hate to be his agent right about now. I think it depends on his involvement. Was he driving or in the car? Or a bystander actively watching the races? Both scenarios will probably make him fall a bit. He was racing the other car that crashed. From my very limited understanding based on what was released, there is video of the cars racing, upwards of 100+mph, weaving between other vehicles, travelling in the wrong direction of the lanes. Autopsy of the young man had an extremely high blood alcohol level. No idea if Carter was also intoxicated. Carter did leave the scene and lied to police about his involvement when questioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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