plan9misfit Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Northland said: Plan keep preaching. I, in my admittedly simplistic way ask this. What was the goal of the club? Was it a deep playoff run or was it failing to get past the divisional round again? The obvious answer I think was the former. So the season on the whole has to be viewed as disappointing. There are things to build on but the focus has to be on improving and getting over/past the divisional round. At the end of the day all the regular season wins and accolades mean little when you can't get past the divisional round. At least some people are glad this “pessimist” stuck around when people tried for years to get me to leave because of my refusal to tow the Jerry Jones line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildantxx Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Warning: Yes, I am another one of those people who have been creeping this forum for at least 15 years but never posted. I read the same back and forth every day. I am not sure why I decided that today was the day to post something but I figured why not. Hopefully I don't get sucked into it too deep! To start: I keep seeing the phrase get a "better QB". What options were there? I am not Dak's biggest fan but he's more than capable of winning a Super Bowl, as much so as many of the other QBs that I keep seeing ranked higher. In short, I just don't understand what some people's plans are. Aside from maybe Slamman, who I can't tell is joking or not, do you really think having Andy Dalton or Cooper Rush plus whatever player or two (or maybe even three) upgrades gives us a better shot? And even if you think on a ONE YEAR basis that gives us a better shot, what is the yearly plan? Keep cycling the QBs until one hits, while the rest of the roster then deteriorates? All of the QBS that get ranked higher - you aren't getting any of them on this team without giving up WAY more than the farm, so why even discuss it? And any of them which aren't paid higher thank Dak will be very soon. That's just the nature of the business and especially the QB market. Any of the QBs ranked lower. If they come here and perform, then guess what, they'll be demanding that same contract, or close to it very soon. So again, unless they hit and win the Super Bowl that first year, you are back to the start of the cycle. I mean is that the position of everyone who is so against Dak? Just roll with a QB on a rookie contract and while you can pay other players keep taking shots and resetting? If so, it is probably a much more soothing reality than seeing the constant Dak hate day after day; it means that for MOST QBs you wouldn't pay them. I can at least get behind that position. I don't think it works in the real world to a real franchise, but at least it's a position. Besides Mahomes I don't see any QBs in the league that are light years ahead of Dak; better, sure, probably even a good deal better. But they are all paid or will be paid higher than him. And even so, I think the gap between Mahomes and them is greater than them and Dak. Da Boys is probably the closest when he says that QBing is much easier these days. But what that means is that everyone performing it well will just wind up getting paid. Again, you can't truly think that year after year the right plan is to go with a proven worse QB on a lower contract. Sure, you might actually hit lightning in a bottle but you wouldn't bank on that. On that note, Da Boys just asked if we saw Toney's drop on a perfectly thrown Mahomes ball? Did anyone see the terrible Burrow throw that was dropped and should have been picked? Did anyone see the terrible Burrow throw that was picked? And now just another one that he was bailed out with a pass interference (funnily on a similar Dak-style pick this year on a tip). I mean I see other people bring up these same points, but it just seems like they get ignored. Is Burrow a better QB than Dak? Yeah, probably. Is he also imperfect? Yes. More imperfect than Dak? Probably not. Is he going to be paid a ton of money? Yes he will. What happens to Chase and Higgins and Boyd and the rest of the team then when they can't afford all of them. We'll see how he is without them. Well, I guess I'm all in now! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northland Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, plan9misfit said: At least some people are glad this “pessimist” stuck around when people tried for years to get me to leave because of my refusal to tow the Jerry Jones line. Will we be revisiting the realists vs the optimists again? Ah the good old days. I'm piggybacking on a point made by someone else re Dak. I don't dislike Dak. I find the situation frustrating. At $50 million a year your QB has to elevate the play of those around him. It can't be a constant search to bring in high quality skill position players and lineman to elevate your $50 million man. Thats why I'm saying find a rb, get some toys for Quinn and hope a power running game and a suffocating defense enable the club to take the next step. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 hour ago, NoFlyZone said: 1 hour ago, elevators_rule said: Think it’s healthy / good that rivals can do this. What about the follow up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, plan9misfit said: What it highlights is that if we got better play from the QB, we would’ve been playing in the NFCC game and possibly a Super Bowl. Instead, bad GM decisions led to a RB being massively overpaid, an unqualified QB getting a massive contract, which led to the release of a quality WR because of cap issues. Again, Zeke and Dak’s respective greed and Jerry’s incompetence as a GM made this happen. But hey, iT wAs OuR YeAr!!!11!! You might as well be a Philly fan with the mocking at the end there. Think you should know better that the fanbase isn’t going around acting that way, let alone me. I simply think our team has been in a good spot for a bit.. despite the constant misgivings just so you can come around and say “TOLD YOU SO” just because the team didn’t win it all. The SB or bust cliche that so many people have is dumb. Just because a team falls short that doesn’t mean they’re inept. I’ve made this comparison before.. but to compare, we can all say the Bills are a very strong team despite losing 3 straight divisional games.. this last one resoundingly so. Allen was horrible in that one, too. I recognize Dak had a poor performance against the best defensive unit in the league last week. I can also recognize he has been very good for this franchise for years. You can do both instead of being a victim of the moment. And of course a player is going to get the contract they can.. that’s not greed… that’s how the NFL works along with the market. Seems like we have this conversation anytime a franchise QB is up for a big contact. In a matter of years a number of other QBs will likely be payed more and this will be reflected with cap increases. The way you describe it you sound like you have a personal vendetta. Given the success and strength of the team over the past two seasons the FO has gotten it right a lot more than they’ve gotten it wrong. Losing to an extremely good Niners team doesn’t change the fact that they’ve been 25-10 (71%) over the past two seasons as one of the definite best teams in the NFC and NFL in general. Unfortunately the Niners have been right there with them and it barely went their way this time but it’s just as simple as that. Edited January 30, 2023 by NoFlyZone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevators_rule Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Just now, NoFlyZone said: You might as well be a Philly fan with the mocking at the end there. Think you should know better that the fanbase isn’t going around acting that way, let alone me. I simply think our team has been in a good spot for a bit.. despite the constant misgivings just so you can come around and say “TOLD YOU SO” just because the team didn’t win it all. The SB or bust that so many people have is dumb. Just because a team falls short that doesn’t mean they’re inept. I’ve made this comparison before.. but to compare, we can all say the Bills are a very strong team despite losing 3 straight divisional games.. this last one resoundingly so. I recognize Dak had a poor performance against the best defensive unit in the league last week. I can also recognize he has been very good for this franchise for years. You can do both instead of being a victim of the moment. And of course a player is going to get the contract they can.. that’s not greed… that’s how the NFL works along with the market. Seems like we have this conversation anytime a franchise QB is up for a big contact. In a matter of years a number of other QBs will likely be payed more and this will be reflected with cap increases. The way you describe it you sound like you have a personal vendetta. Given the success and strength of the team over the past two seasons the FO has gotten it right a lot more than they’ve gotten it wrong. Losing to an extremely good Niners team doesn’t change the fact that they’ve been 25-10 (71%) over the past two seasons as one of the definite best teams in the NFC and NFL in general. Unfortunately the Niners have been right there with them and it barely went their way this time but it’s just as simple as that. So, why did the Cowboys lose the division? If we're doing everything right, and our only problem is the 9ers, surely we should've won the division, right? You can't blame injuries, as most of our losses came with Dak at the helm. Do you seriously boil everything down to "ahh... Dak is great, front office is great... we're just unlucky because of the 9ers!" So literal question: why did we lose the division? Bad luck again? Another excuse saying "it's just hard to win in this league!." I'm genuinely curious what your reasoning for our ~30 years of failure is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 15 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said: What about the follow up? Don’t see an issue lol. Probably a good mentality to have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, elevators_rule said: So, why did the Cowboys lose the division? If we're doing everything right, and our only problem is the 9ers, surely we should've won the division, right? You can't blame injuries, as most of our losses came with Dak at the helm. Do you seriously boil everything down to "ahh... Dak is great, front office is great... we're just unlucky because of the 9ers!" So literal question: why did we lose the division? Bad luck again? Another excuse saying "it's just hard to win in this league!." I'm genuinely curious what your reasoning for our ~30 years of failure is. Philly went 14-3. Does that even need to be explained? Dallas was still in their class, despite being a couple of games short. Doesn’t mean one is awesome and the other is inept and hopeless just because the fanbase has no spine and can’t emotionally handle disappointing losses with their fav football team. I also don’t care about the 20+ years without a SB/ championship game because it’s laughably irrelevant. I don’t care about anything that isn’t relevant to the present day team. Edited January 30, 2023 by NoFlyZone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plan9misfit Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 1 minute ago, NoFlyZone said: Philly went 14-3. Does that even need to be explained? Dallas was still in their class, despite being a couple of games short. I also don’t care about the 20+ years without a SB/ championship game because it’s laughably irrelevant. I don’t care about anything that isn’t relevant to the present day team. And had Dak bothered to show up for Tampa Bay, Green Bay, Jacksonville, and Washington, rather than going to sleep, well, we would’ve win the division. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevators_rule Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: Philly went 14-3. Does that even need to be explained? Dallas was still in their class, despite being a couple of games short. I also don’t care about the 20+ years without a SB/ championship game because it’s laughably irrelevant. I don’t care about anything that isn’t relevant to the present day team. So... the GM isn't relevant at all except for this year lol? 20+ years without a championship game isn't relevant when dictating if our team is headed in the right direction??! The original discussion was the Eagles front office deserves credit and ours is poor. A 30 year time span seems pretty relevant there... Also, hilarious dodge at the question. You explain Phillys success as being "easiest road to the superbowl" but when asked why Dallas didn't have that road you just dodge and say "idk 'cause." You genuinely aren't capable of acknowledging our faults and instead just yell that everyone is overly negative or has a "defeatist" attitude. Dallas could've easily won the divison if we beat.. ahem 2/3 of the Jaguars, Buccs and/or Commanders. Not exactly an impossible feat for a good team. Edited January 30, 2023 by elevators_rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Just now, plan9misfit said: And had Dak bothered to show up for Tampa Bay, Green Bay, Jacksonville, and Washington, rather than going to sleep, well, we would’ve win the division. He was more than fine against GB and the Jaguars. The defense collapsed in those games. Whole team was flat in the others — QBs have poor games sometimes, doesn’t mean you generalize those performances or hang it over how the whole season went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoFlyZone Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 Just now, elevators_rule said: So... the GM isn't relevant at all except for this year lol? 20+ years without a championship game isn't relevant when dictating if our team is headed in the right direction??! The original discussion was the Eagles front office deserves credit and ours is poor. A 30 year time span seems pretty relevant there... Also, hilarious dodge at the question. You explain Phillys success as being "easiest road to the superbowl" but when asked why Dallas didn't have that road you just dodge and say "idk 'cause." You genuinely aren't capable of acknowledging our faults and instead just yell that everyone is overly negative or has a "defeatist" attitude. Nah, you just don’t read and I’m tired of explaining it at this point. Especially if you’re going to reference things over decade as if that wasn’t laughably, totally irrational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plan9misfit Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: He was more than fine against GB and the Jaguars. The defense collapsed in those games. Whole team was flat in the others — QBs have poor games sometimes, doesn’t mean you generalize those performances or hang it over how the whole season went. Right. So, his two picks - both of which resulted in Jacksonville TDs - had nothing to do with it. Especially when the last one literally ended the game because it was a pick 6. Those were on the defense too, right? The same for the Green Bay game, where Dak’s two picks resulted in 14 points for Green Bay. Edited January 30, 2023 by plan9misfit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elevators_rule Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: Nah, you just don’t read and I’m tired of explaining it at this point. Especially if you’re going to reference things over decade as if that wasn’t laughably, totally irrational. Ahh, I should've placed money on the betting line of: "ehh, idk what to say so I'll just tell everyone they don't know how to read!" Let me ask you this: Most Cowboys fans AND Eagles fans agree that Dak isn't the answer and the front office hasn't done a great job. Do you really think you're the only sane person here? EVERYONE else is wrong, friend and foe alike, and you're the sole voice of reason? No way you're that delusional. I could almost predict your response: 1. You didn't read what I said. I'm not repeating myself. 2. That's not relevant. I'm going to choose to ignore the context. 3. That's relevant, you're just not taking it into context. ...Or some combination of the three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted January 30, 2023 Share Posted January 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, NoFlyZone said: Don’t see an issue lol. Probably a good mentality to have. Micah & Lane have always talked about how much they respect each others games. We as fans might really buy into the rivalry, but most of these players out there are friends or at least cool with one another. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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