BetterCallSaul Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 6 hours ago, biggie. said: Tebow would have had a more successful career if he switched to RB from the get go. H-Back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 11 hours ago, Trojan said: Lamar was good last year though? He got hurt, but like... he was impressive? Why do you dislike him? If we added him and retained Adams and Waller it would be pretty insane. Because he's just not a very good QB. He won an MVP and has been ridiculously overrated ever since. He hasn't improved much as a passer at all during his career and Baltimore's offense had to tailor around him. That isn't going to last with age, injury, play style. He's getting knicked up more often. He's his own "agent", or his mom is, whichever the case. Those are always headaches (see: Eli Apple, Kyler Murray, etc.- someone who's parent(s) get that involved, there's always drama under the surface.). Lamar gets a pass for now because of his talent. Bet you $10 once he's gone from Baltimore, it's not long before stories about how impossible he is to deal with at a negotiating table. Only topped 3k yards once in 5 years as starter.... In his MVP year, he had 43 total TDs and 15 combined INTs/Fumbles. In the 3 years since, he's managed 71 total TDs and 50 combined INTs/Fumbles- that makes his MVP numbers a massive outlier everyone is clinging into when in reality, his numbers aren't great and actually quite mediocre for all the hype. He's also only 26-13 since winning his MVP, making him the east coast Jimmy G with his seemingly annual average 8-4 record....woo? Woooo? Most of all, I just find it hilarious that NYRaider is so obsessed with the guy and uses his 1 MVP from like 4 years ago as the ultimate excuse for anything Lamar does, but spent the last 3 years absolutely dogging Carr for being "turnover prone", a "mental midget", having a "nauseating family", being "sensitive", being "soft", not improving, not winning despite the *team* around him (Baltimore's usual roster and coaching>>> Oak Vegas', just saying). Lamar had one great year when nobody really knew what he was about. Since that point, he's had diminishing returns and play that's nowhere near that level. I said before I can appreciate what he brings when a team alters their entire existence to fit what's needed to maximize what he can do and minimize what he can't. It's just highly hypocritical, in my opinion, to ******* oneself over Lamar after years of bashing Carr endlessly for arguably better individual QB play and leadership despite worse overall situations over the exact same timespan. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 11 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Horrid accuracy? Tim Tebow couldn’t even complete half his passes when no one was defending the pass. You’re putting Jake Locker’s, Tim Tebow’s, and Lamar’s accuracy/mechanics in a blender? Question if you even watch football, tbh. Tebow had the mechanics of a linebacker throwing the ball. Lamar with Mac Jones’ legs is still a top 20 passer in this league. Tebow with his own legs wasn’t even a rosterable QB. But, uh, sure…they can both run, I guess. Steve Young’s pretty comparable to Tebow in that regard too! Lamar is barely a top 20 passer with his own legs, dude. Since his MVP year, he's like 22nd, 24th, and 27th in pass yards and 12th, 24th, and 17th in pass TDs. And if your excuse is he was injured...well, he maybe he should trade legs with Mac Jones and prove me wrong? Durability is, after all, one of the biggest criticisms of his play style. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 11 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Lamar with Mac Jones’ legs is still a top 20 passer in this league. Tebow with his own legs wasn’t even a rosterable QB. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 3 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Lamar is barely a top 20 passer with his own legs, dude. Since his MVP year, he's like 22nd, 24th, and 27th in pass yards and 12th, 24th, and 17th in pass TDs. Who are the 20 QBs you’re taking over Lamar? While keeping in mind that, yes, Lamar’s had worse weapons and worse coaching than almost any. And by comparison, where do you think Tebow was as a passer, taking his legs out? Top 32? Top 64? Dude was, again, barely rosterable in an offense with playmakers and tailored to his running. His mechanics were worse than Lockers’, worse than any passer I’ve ever seen in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 26 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: Who are the 20 QBs you’re taking over Lamar? While keeping in mind that, yes, Lamar’s had worse weapons and worse coaching than almost any. And by comparison, where do you think Tebow was as a passer, taking his legs out? Top 32? Top 64? Dude was, again, barely rosterable in an offense with playmakers and tailored to his running. His mechanics were worse than Lockers’, worse than any passer I’ve ever seen in the NFL. In no particular order, as a passer and accounting for the situations faced: Mahomes, Herbert, Carr, Garoppolo, Smith, Stafford, Murray, Purdy, Goff, Rodgers, Cousins, Burrow, Watson, Lawrence, Brady, Mills, White, Prescott, Jones, Allen, Tua, Tannehill, Brissett, Wentz, Heinicke There's 25, so even if one wanted to really argue a few, he's still barely reaching the top 20 as there are probably a couple who will easily surpass him as a passer this year by improving or coming into the league. And that's assuming one doesn't think some other lesser QBs like Mayfield or Gabbert or Lance or Love or Minshew are better passers, just not as exciting of weapons. I can think of many QBs I would take as a passer over Jackson for a variety of reasons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: In no particular order, as a passer and accounting for the situations faced: Mahomes, Herbert, Carr, Garoppolo, Smith, Stafford, Murray, Purdy, Goff, Rodgers, Cousins, Burrow, Watson, Lawrence, Brady, Mills, White, Prescott, Jones, Allen, Tua, Tannehill, Brissett, Wentz, Heinicke There's 25, so even if one wanted to really argue a few, he's still barely reaching the top 20 as there are probably a couple who will easily surpass him as a passer this year by improving or coming into the league. And that's assuming one doesn't think some other lesser QBs like Mayfield or Gabbert or Lance or Love or Minshew are better passers, just not as exciting of weapons. I can think of many QBs I would take as a passer over Jackson for a variety of reasons. You'd take Jacoby Brissett, Taylor Heinicke, Mike White, and Davis Mills over Lamar Jackson? A retired Tom Brady too, or Purdy with a low strength arm that then tore it's UCL? Neat. How does Wentz rank up there with his decline since his almost MVP? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypher Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 I definitely think Lamar is a top-16 passer, but that's kind of a low bar. We're seeing a dearth of QB talent in the NFL right now. A lot of the rookies coming out are bombing crazy hard. There's just not much to replace the guys of yesteryear right now. Lamar is worth a few 1sts and big contract, but nobody should be handing another fully guaranteed deal to anybody. Absurd nonsense that's completely unsustainable. As far as Lamar's MVP, yeah, people use it as a crutch just like they did with Cam, and would with Wentz if he'd won it. The regression from all three was pretty stark but fans tend to want to ignore that. Cam plateaued in 2015 and never really got close again. Same deal with Wentz. Seems like Lamar will be yet another in that line. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, Trojan said: You'd take Jacoby Brissett, Taylor Heinicke, Mike White, and Davis Mills over Lamar Jackson? A retired Tom Brady too, or Purdy with a low strength arm that then tore it's UCL? Neat. How does Wentz rank up there with his decline since his almost MVP? As pure passers, yes. All day. That was, after all, the question. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trojan Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said: As pure passers, yes. All day. That was, after all, the question. Davis Mills can do this? Why isn't he doing it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronjon1990 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 23 minutes ago, Trojan said: Davis Mills can do this? Why isn't he doing it? Let's see Davis Mills with a top tier OL and weapons that aren't a bunch of UDFA/late rounders. Even then, cool? A highlight reel, how persuasive. Take away 1 of the 25, I guess? Lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamq Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (Tenn cut Bobby Trees) Would look good in red n gold..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: Mahomes, Herbert, Carr, Garoppolo, Smith, Stafford, Murray, Purdy, Goff, Rodgers, Cousins, Burrow, Watson, Lawrence, Brady, Mills, White, Prescott, Jones, Allen, Tua, Tannehill, Brissett, Wentz, Heinicke There's 25, so even if one wanted to really argue a few, he's still barely reaching the top 20 as there are probably a couple who will easily surpass him as a passer this year by improving or coming into the league. Edited February 22, 2023 by Yin-Yang 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said: As pure passers, yes. All day. That was, after all, the question. That is hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said: In no particular order, as a passer and accounting for the situations faced: Mahomes, Herbert, Carr, Garoppolo, Smith, Stafford, Murray, Purdy, Goff, Rodgers, Cousins, Burrow, Watson, Lawrence, Brady, Mills, White, Prescott, Jones, Allen, Tua, Tannehill, Brissett, Wentz, Heinicke There's 25, so even if one wanted to really argue a few, he's still barely reaching the top 20 as there are probably a couple who will easily surpass him as a passer this year by improving or coming into the league. And that's assuming one doesn't think some other lesser QBs like Mayfield or Gabbert or Lance or Love or Minshew are better passers, just not as exciting of weapons. I can think of many QBs I would take as a passer over Jackson for a variety of reasons. I have questions about Lamar, but that list is absurd lol. Jimmy G? Geno Smith? Cousins? Brissett, Wentz, and Heinicke? MILLS?!? MIKE WHITE?!?!?! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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