2023 Draft

[sparky151]

20 hours ago, theJ said:

I think Washington dropped just because he's never shown any penchant for catching passes.  It's a pretty big deal for a TE in today's game.

NFLN had a graphic that had Washington's receiving efficiency at 3rd in the class, behind Kincaid and Mayer but ahead of LaPorta, etc. Washington played with Brock Bowers so he certainly wasn't a focal point of the UGA offense but he did well when thrown to. 

11 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

It was actually medical. Knee and foot apparently.

Dawand Jones dropped because he didn’t test, left the Senior Bowl after one day, and weighed in 20 lbs heavier than his combine weight before the draft. Major concerns about his weight and maturity. There’s a reason 32 teams passed 3 times.

Yet the mystery foot and knee problems didn't prevent Washington from playing every game or doing the drills at the combine or his pro day. That sort of thing sounds like a smokescreen. Those are common before the draft. 

How do you know what Jones weighed? The complaint was that nobody knew. So you had Rick Spielman making numbers up and other people treated them like data.

 

6 hours ago, INbengalfan said:

How is signing the top LT on the FA market "ignoring the OL"?  Pretty sure they also signed some dude named Ford.  Plus have Jonah, Carman and Smith.  But hey, they ignored it.

 

Which one is Tobin?  And maybe that interview with him scared them off.  Maybe Cleveland didn't meet with him, or met with him right after the combine.  Who knows?  I'm sure the front office had a plan, and it didn't matc h yours.  Or mine.  But that's their job.  I do it for fun, not to prove I can do it better (which all of us could do years ago when only Mikey was calling the shots).

Aren't we talking about the draft here? I believe it's even in the thread title. So yes, the team did ignore the O-line, the group whose failures ended our last 2 seasons. 

Yes, they had a plan to ignore some position groups like TE, RT, IOL, and to some extent RB. Maybe they will swing a trade or something but at the moment we have the worst TE group in the NFL and there's no need for that. 

[SmittyBacall]

11 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Yet the mystery foot and knee problems didn't prevent Washington from playing every game or doing the drills at the combine or his pro day. That sort of thing sounds like a smokescreen. Those are common before the draft. 

It didn’t cause issues because it didn’t yet manifest itself, but he’s obviously at risk of issues long term. Literally every NFL team runs their own medicals. That’s not something you can smokescreen. 

13 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

How do you know what Jones weighed? The complaint was that nobody knew. So you had Rick Spielman making numbers up and other people treated them like data.

Dave Lapham said it. He’s pretty tied in.

14 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Yes, they had a plan to ignore some position groups like TE, RT, IOL, and to some extent RB. Maybe they will swing a trade or something but at the moment we have the worst TE group in the NFL and there's no need for that. 

It amazes me how ignorant people can be. The Bengals have been one of the better drafting teams the last half decade, and people act like they should be the ones in control. Blows my mind.

[sparky151]

13 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

It didn’t cause issues because it didn’t yet manifest itself, but he’s obviously at risk of issues long term. Literally every NFL team runs their own medicals. That’s not something you can smokescreen. 

Dave Lapham said it. He’s pretty tied in.

It amazes me how ignorant people can be. The Bengals have been one of the better drafting teams the last half decade, and people act like they should be the ones in control. Blows my mind.

Yes, each team makes their own judgment about various red flags. Pittsburgh thinks he'll be ok and we'll see him twice a year. 

Ah, that's the pre-draft version of telephone. Lapham didn't say where he got it but it matched what Spielman said, which wasn't based on anything other than seeing Jones in person at the OSU proday. 

The Bengals have not been a top drafting team in recent years. We had Burrow fall into our laps and that covers a multitude of other sins. The team had to rebuild the defense and O-line with free agents in the last few years because of misses in the draft.  In our division, Pittsburgh and Baltimore are the teams which are consistently good at the draft. They've just never had a shot at a Burrow caliber QB. 

[SmittyBacall]

7 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Yes, each team makes their own judgment about various red flags. Pittsburgh thinks he'll be ok and we'll see him twice a year

Considering how far he fell the league seems to side with the Bengals view.

7 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Ah, that's the pre-draft version of telephone. Lapham didn't say where he got it but it matched what Spielman said, which wasn't based on anything other than seeing Jones in person at the OSU proday.

Or they could just be accurate? But that wouldn’t fit your bias.

10 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

The Bengals have not been a top drafting team in recent years.

What a joke.

[theJ]

8 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said:

What a joke.

I'd actually agree with @sparky151 on that point.  They've missed quite a bit, and while i wouldn't go so far as to say they've been bad, they haven't been among the top in the league.

2018: Bates, Hubbard, Tate (?eh?), bunch of fodder (btw, Billy Price feels like a decade ago, not 2018)

Since Taylor got there:

2019: Jonah, Pratt, bunch of fodder - and Jonah is about to be kicked to the curb following the 2023 season

2020: Burrow, Higgins, Wilson all good to great players.  Gaither and Bailey are still unknowns, but hanging around.  Kareem and Adenijii are probably nothings.  This is probably their best class.

2021: Chase +++, Ossai, McPherson, bunch of fodder

2022: Probably too early to tell, but there's some promise in 2, maybe 4 players

Yeah they've found a bunch of good to great starters, but where they're really struggling is finding some solid part time contributors for the back half of the roster.  Guys that come in for a week and do solid work.  Most of these guys are just bad.

[INbengalfan]

12 hours ago, sparky151 said:

Aren't we talking about the draft here? I believe it's even in the thread title. So yes, the team did ignore the O-line, the group whose failures ended our last 2 seasons. 

Yes, they had a plan to ignore some position groups like TE, RT, IOL, and to some extent RB. Maybe they will swing a trade or something but at the moment we have the worst TE group in the NFL and there's no need for that. 

We are, but to act like they didn't use free agency to fill those holes is being rather obtuse.  

 

The roster is filled.  they would have drafted a RT if Jonah had been traded.

[THE DUKE]

Fairly athletic class:

1.28 - Myles Murphy, DE - 9.71 RAS - Myles Murphy RAS
2.60 - DJ Turner, CB - 9.58 RAS - DJ Turner II RAS
3.95 - Jordan Battle, S - 5.90 RAS - Jordan Battle RAS
4.131 - Charlie Jones, WR - 8.54 RAS - Charles Jones RAS
5.163 - Chase Brown, RB - 9.81 RAS - Chase Brown RAS
6.206 - Andrei Iosivas, WR - 9.96 RAS - Andrei Iosivas RAS
6.217 - Brad Robbins, P - NA
7.246 - DJ Ivey, CB - 7.87 RAS - DJ Ivey RAS

Notes

• Charlie Jones biggest knock and why he isn't a 9+ RAS guy is that he is 5'11" 175 lbs, his speed and agility numbers were great.
• Battle is really the only "average" athlete in the draft class, he was drug down by poor agility and explosion numbers, but has good raw speed.  If he's playing zone in the backend, those weaknesses should be minimized.
• 4 elite athletes in Murphy, Turner, Brown, and Iosivas all 9.5+. 
• Turner had a COMBINE 4.26 40 yard dash. 
• Brown didn't test for agility but was elite for speed and explosion. 
• Murphy is a 270 lb man who can run a 4.53 40 yard dash.
• Iosivas did all the testing and was elite for speed and explosion, and great for size and agility.  Lots of tools to work with.

[THE DUKE]

A lighter draft on the captain front, only 1 captain in Jordan Battle.

[Beck Bristow]

57 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

We are, but to act like they didn't use free agency to fill those holes is being rather obtuse.  

 

The roster is filled.  they would have drafted a RT if Jonah had been traded.

Maybe. I think reverse though, if there was an offensive tackle that they liked, they would have drafted him. This was never considered a great offensive tackle draft.

 

We kinda fell of talking about it, but I really like our day three. 

Charlie Jones was a heck of a college player, and if he was younger he would have gone much higher. Should be an instant impact as a returner and fits as an option as a backup at all positions.

Chase Brown was not someone I was thinking was likely, just due to his usage, but he was a very productive college player who should be able to contribute for a few seasons.

The Princeton guy is an athlete. Can't help but think of Bennie Brazelle.

Punter who looks older than Kevin Huber? Who doesn't love that?

And a random 6 foot corner from the U.

I have to say I don't have any quibbles here.

[THE DUKE]

22 minutes ago, Beck Bristow said:

Maybe. I think reverse though, if there was an offensive tackle that they liked, they would have drafted him. This was never considered a great offensive tackle draft.

 

We kinda fell of talking about it, but I really like our day three. 

Charlie Jones was a heck of a college player, and if he was younger he would have gone much higher. Should be an instant impact as a returner and fits as an option as a backup at all positions.

Chase Brown was not someone I was thinking was likely, just due to his usage, but he was a very productive college player who should be able to contribute for a few seasons.

The Princeton guy is an athlete. Can't help but think of Bennie Brazelle.

Punter who looks older than Kevin Huber? Who doesn't love that?

And a random 6 foot corner from the U.

I have to say I don't have any quibbles here.

Jones wasn't just production, he was ultra productive.  110 catches, 1361 yards, and 12 TD's in PURDUE's offense.  It's not like he was getting passes from the drafts QB1 (was O'Connell even drafted?) and was surrounded by other multiple first round picks.  Teams knew it was coming to Jones, and they couldn't stop him.  The Bengals don't need him to be WR1.  Not even WR3 this year.  Just to be WR3 by 2024.  He's a great fit as the future slot.

Chase Brown is a nice fit in that he has explosiveness to break a big play, and while there is a lot of mileage there already, we only need him 4-5 years at a maximum.  I don't think a 2nd contract is a prerequisite to call this pick a success.  He's also one of the better pass catching and pass blocking backs in this draft.  He's ready to step right into that Perine roll, but with a little upside.

Iosivas is a well worthwhile gamble at 206.  You don't need any more physical development, he's already a 6'3" near 200 lb elite athlete.  You hope maybe to clean up the fine points of playing WR, he's a good swing to take.  If you hit, he can be a 1000 yard receiver if given the opportunity.

Robbins had 0 touchbacks in 2022 and only 2 in 2021.  Not the biggest net, but he controls the ball, and he has elite HANG TIME on his punts.  Chrisman's terrible hang time cost us dearly in the AFCCG.

Ivey is going to have to make his bones on special teams if he wants to make the team.  Decent, but not elite athlete.  Has intercepted Kenny Pickett before, so that's fun.

[SmittyBacall]

15 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Has intercepted Kenny Pickett before, so that's fun.

Twice in one game.

[theJ]

22 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Robbins had 0 touchbacks in 2022 and only 2 in 2021.  Not the biggest net, but he controls the ball, and he has elite HANG TIME on his punts.  Chrisman's terrible hang time cost us dearly in the AFCCG.

 

I saw a stat the other day when they drafted him that his net dropped a ton after an injury last year.  It was like an 8 yard difference (49 -> 41).  I think we'll be ok with his net, presuming he's over whatever that was. 

[sparky151]

On 4/30/2023 at 8:24 PM, SmittyBacall said:

Considering how far he fell the league seems to side with the Bengals view.

Or they could just be accurate? But that wouldn’t fit your bias.

What a joke.

If the league thought Washington couldn't play, he would have gone undrafted, not in the 3rd round. 

Lapham's actual comment was that Jones was 400 lbs waiting to happen. That's not a measurement, just an opinion.

So you want to give Tobin credit for drafting Jordan, who got Burrow's knee caved in, thus making it possible to draft Chase? 

[Beck Bristow]

[SmittyBacall]

51 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

If the league thought Washington couldn't play, he would have gone undrafted, not in the 3rd round. 

It only takes one team to assume the risk.

52 minutes ago, sparky151 said:

Lapham's actual comment was that Jones was 400 lbs waiting to happen. That's not a measurement, just an opinion.

No, his comment was that Jones was rumoured to have already gained 20 lbs and was in the 390’s. He said it on live stream at the First Star draft party.