KFP7 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 14 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said: The lack of experience doesn't seem to be impacting CJ Stroud much. Kenny Pickett isn't doing awful with a lack of experience around him. Anthony Richardson had very little to work with when he was healthy yet he looked pretty good. Maybe, just maybe, its Jordan Love, bad receivers and awful coaching. and a bad o-line, and a non-existent running game(until Jones is healthy). Packers offense is pretty bad across the board right now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 12 hours ago, SteelKing728 said: The lack of experience doesn't seem to be impacting CJ Stroud much. Kenny Pickett isn't doing awful with a lack of experience around him. Anthony Richardson had very little to work with when he was healthy yet he looked pretty good. Maybe, just maybe, its Jordan Love, bad receivers and awful coaching. Stroud and Pickett are/were better prospects than Love was. I doubt he's the second coming of Aaron Rodgers but he really doesn't have to be. I'm hoping it is inexperienced receivers (who aren't running correct routes and/or dropping passes) and coaching. If it is Love then we have to look elsewhere in 2024. As I said, we shall know after a few more weeks if he is improving or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 22 hours ago, ET80 said: I have like... 17 years of elite, MVP/HoF seasons that tell me last year was an outlier. Except elite players shouldn't need elite weapons to be successful. Tom Brady had a pretty damn good career throwing to guys like Wes Welker and Julian Edelman, who are a bit short in the physical department. And that's not to say the year before LaFleur and the year LaFleur got to Green Bay, he was mediocre by his standards. Still an above-average QB by NFL standard, but still well below the standard Rodgers set. Rodgers expects his supporting cast to be similar of his career when he had Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, Devante Adams, etc. 22 hours ago, ET80 said: Isn't this a yearly thing nowadays? Bakh hadn't been healthy in a LOOOOOOONG time. Unfortunately, yes. But if we're talking about who values a healthy Bakh more, Rodgers or Love? I think the answer is pretty clearly the latter. And quite frankly, I think that's part of the equation that I feel like Rodgers didn't value enough from his year's in Green Bay. The Packers consistently had a top 10 OL. I honestly don't remember any year they didn't have a top 10 OL. The Packers' OL has been a mixed bag this year. Outside of Zach Tom, the offensive line has been a mess. Rasheed Walker showed flashes in preseason, but that didn't carry over into the regular season. Elgton Jenkins has been okay, but not quite living up to that massive extension they gave him last year. Josh Myers might be the most polarizing players on the Packers' offense. When he gets his hands on defenders, he's moving them. But he's whiffing too much. Jon Runyan is the definition of a JAG. This isn't a top 10 OL. Jordan Love's play isn't helping, but this is anything but good OL play. 22 hours ago, ET80 said: I think you miss what I'm saying here - *watching* them play, blind to the situation of either QB - I see Rodgers trying to work and go off script like he usually does, but that inexperience from others you mention is just preventing him from doing anything. Love? He is just unaware of where to go or how to get there. If the defense shows any sign of coverage or pressure that takes away his options, he just melts. Right now, he's reminding me of a more athletic Tom Savage - has the tools, just doesn't know how to use them when the defense is actively trying to stop him. I'm not sure I agree with you. I see a young offensive core (Love, Watson, Reed, Doubs, Musgrave, etc.) that's going through maturation issues, which is to be expected. Outside of Aaron Jones, the Packers have a combined 2 years of NFL experience of their starting skill positions (Watson, Doubs, Reed, and Musgrave). I don't think there's a single team in the league that has that kind of inexperience at their skill positions. Add that inexperience along with poor play along the OL, and we're seeing the offense sputter. And the coaching staff isn't doing him any favors. The Packers went super, super conservative in the 1st half of the Denver game. And the offense stalled out badly because they weren't moving the chains. It's amazing how much better the offense went in the 2nd half when they started pushing the ball. I'm not saying it was a world beater, but it was a staunch improvement from the 1st half. Now that's not to say that Jordan Love doesn't have things he needs to work on. Unlike other QBs, he seems capable/willing to move up into the pocket but he could stand to sit in there a bit longer. His deep ball accuracy isn't there, but those deep shots those WRs aren't even contesting the ball. The last INT in the Denver game Watson was going down instead of trying to contest it. TL;DR we're going through growing pains of a young offense. If the offense is still sputtering this badly at the end of the season, than a real change will need to be made. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 14 hours ago, KFP7 said: and a bad o-line, and a non-existent running game(until Jones is healthy). Packers offense is pretty bad across the board right now They look worse than they are right now because of youth and inconsistency. They are flashing a lot of potential at times, but are really really streaky. League average results, however. Coming in at 17th in DVOA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 23 hours ago, notthatbluestuff said: It's already fun to bump the thread... You can choose to ignore guys like Kurt Warner and JT O'Sullivan who see the same things I do. That's a totally fine stance to take. Not sure why you'd think your opinion is superior to theirs, though. High risk of that coming back to bite you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 14 hours ago, KFP7 said: and a bad o-line, and a non-existent running game(until Jones is healthy). Packers offense is pretty bad across the board right now And how would you describe the Davis Mills-led Texans offense last year? The one that was ranked somewhere between 30-32 across the board? Because that's pretty much the same offense CJ Stroud is excelling in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 23 hours ago, CWood21 said: These are the groins pains that were expected. It's a real kick in the nuts, that's for sure. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 16 minutes ago, incognito_man said: You can choose to ignore guys like Kurt Warner and JT O'Sullivan who see the same things I do. That's a totally fine stance to take. Not sure why you'd think your opinion is superior to theirs, though. High risk of that coming back to bite you. I've watched multiple of his Love videos. Love still has some of the same issues week after week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: Except elite players shouldn't need elite weapons to be successful. Tom Brady had a pretty damn good career throwing to guys like Wes Welker and Julian Edelman, who are a bit short in the physical department. I think Brady is the *actual* outlier to this. (We'll ignore that his best statistical seasons were with a guy who is considered the 2nd best WR in football history, or a guy who is considered the best TE in football history - we SHOULDN'T ignore this, but you seem to do it without as much as flinching). - Manning: Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Stokley, Thomas, Decker, Welker. - Brees: Bush, Colston, Graham, Sproles, Thomas - Young: Rice, Watters, Owens - Warner: Bruce, Holt, Faulk, Fitzgerald, Boldin - Mahomes: Hill, Kelce - Hurts: Brown, Smith, Goedert It's almost as if there's a symbiotic relationship between elite QBs and elite WRs (and TEs - because Gronk/Kelce are people too). 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: The Packers consistently had a top 10 OL. I honestly don't remember any year they didn't have a top 10 OL. The Packers' OL has been a mixed bag this year. Eventually, we're going to understand that good OL play is predicted by a QB that can make quick decisions and proper reads. New England couldn't block for Cam Newton or Mac Jones, but was a top 2-3 OL with Brady. Davis Mills was destroyed the last two years, but CJ Stroud is upright. Jameis Winston was a ragdoll, Drew Brees was rarely touched. Rodgers was wheeling and dealing, Love isn't. Notice a pattern here? It's not JUST OL, the QB is just as important to this success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, ET80 said: I think Brady is the *actual* outlier to this. (We'll ignore that his best statistical seasons were with a guy who is considered the 2nd best WR in football history, or a guy who is considered the best TE in football history - we SHOULDN'T ignore this, but you seem to do it without as much as flinching). - Manning: Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Stokley, Thomas, Decker, Welker. - Brees: Bush, Colston, Graham, Sproles, Thomas - Young: Rice, Watters, Owens - Warner: Bruce, Holt, Faulk, Fitzgerald, Boldin - Mahomes: Hill, Kelce - Hurts: Brown, Smith, Goedert - Stroud: Collins, Dell, Schultz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, ET80 said: And how would you describe the Davis Mills-led Texans offense last year? The one that was ranked somewhere between 30-32 across the board? Because that's pretty much the same offense CJ Stroud is excelling in. You discounting the change in coaching staff? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KFP7 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 23 minutes ago, ET80 said: And how would you describe the Davis Mills-led Texans offense last year? The one that was ranked somewhere between 30-32 across the board? Because that's pretty much the same offense CJ Stroud is excelling in. I'll be honest, I don't think I've watched a single Texan game this year nor last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, KFP7 said: I'll be honest, I don't think I've watched a single Texan game this year nor last year. You're actually missing out. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 59 minutes ago, squire12 said: 1 hour ago, ET80 said: And how would you describe the Davis Mills-led Texans offense last year? The one that was ranked somewhere between 30-32 across the board? Because that's pretty much the same offense CJ Stroud is excelling in. You discounting the change in coaching staff? A rookie coaching staff - one that never held any of the positions they currently hold, one that never called plays, one that was the least experienced staff in football coming into the season? I guess I was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted October 28, 2023 Share Posted October 28, 2023 59 minutes ago, KFP7 said: I'll be honest, I don't think I've watched a single Texan game this year nor last year. I wouldn't blame you for last year - or this year, for that matter. It's not like the Texans are a prime time draw (but if Ryans and Stroud continue progressing in this direction, I do feel as if Texans/Jaguars will be flexed into prime time). However, that doesn't change my question, or what I'm ultimately getting at: A franchise QB makes the supporting cast around them better. Is Jordan Love making those around him better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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