Why I believe Kirk Cousins will be a New York Jet

[Bobby816]

4 hours ago, GangGreen420 said:

I guess what we want as a “sure thing” is where opinions differ.

Id rather gamble on a rookie QB and have a chance to be successful for a long long time rather than give a “10-15” guy mega money and try to win in 4 years. Eventually,  that 35m cap hit will affect the team.

And that's where opinions differ too. Cousins I view as a 7+yr starter or so for whoever he goes to not a 4yr guy. And I rank him between 5-10 not 10-15.

[MoLewis57]

54 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

And that's where opinions differ too. Cousins I view as a 7+yr starter or so for whoever he goes to not a 4yr guy. And I rank him between 5-10 not 10-15.

This is how I see Cousins too. Plus we can draft and build elsewhere to build a team around him and his preferred skill players. 

[KodiakThunder]

24 minutes ago, MoLewis57 said:

This is how I see Cousins too. Plus we can draft and build elsewhere to build a team around him and his preferred skill players. 

A team with a better support system will have more success with Cousins than us becuse of this.

We need guys at EVERY position. Cousins would have to wait 2-3 yrs for us to adequately build a team around him, and my guess is he isnt that patient....Also Washington tried to build a team around him for the last few years, with only a modicrum of success.

Id prefer we signed someone worse snd drafted a QB at 6. Cousins is 100% a massive upgrade at qb, i just dont think its a massive upgrade as a team in the long run. 

Sign a guy like Bridgewater/Gabbert ect and draft a QB at 6. Focus FA money on young OL, Pass Rushers and WR... 

[doumeyer]

3 hours ago, Dr.O said:

RG3 trade was different, Didn't take a ton for the Rams or Eagles to move up 2 years ago. RG3 trade you have to keep in mind that Dan Snyder was the driving force of that trade from what I could tell which makes a world of difference. 

That third round pick is worth a fortune, because of the QB situation, they would have to be out of there mind to take a second round pick for the third overall pick in the draft. Times I really wonder about you guys, making statements like that.

[Dr.O]

20 minutes ago, doumeyer said:

That third round pick is worth a fortune, because of the QB situation, they would have to be out of there mind to take a second round pick for the third overall pick in the draft. Times I really wonder about you guys, making statements like that.

Idk what your even talking about 

edit: nvm now I get it. The QB situation 2 years ago was the same and neither trade was as bad as the RG3 one. Like I said Dan Snyder was the one that made that trade.

[GangGreen420]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

And that's where opinions differ too. Cousins I view as a 7+yr starter or so for whoever he goes to not a 4yr guy. And I rank him between 5-10 not 10-15.

He’s way closer to 10 than 5 but that’s another discussion. He can start for 7 years but just because HOF guys like Brady, Rodgers and Brees are playing at such a high level still it’s no guarantee Cousins will not fall off to some degree. But the time will come when we need to sign guys or address needs and a 35M cap hit will restrict the ability to do so. I believe Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield all have the ability to become a top 12 QB in this league and that’s about where I have Cousins ranked. I’d rather do it with them and really build a foundation while on their rookie deal. I don’t see immediate success signing Cousins which I thibk is what a lot of people expect.

[Bobby816]

43 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

He’s way closer to 10 than 5 but that’s another discussion. He can start for 7 years but just because HOF guys like Brady, Rodgers and Brees are playing at such a high level still it’s no guarantee Cousins will not fall off to some degree. But the time will come when we need to sign guys or address needs and a 35M cap hit will restrict the ability to do so. I believe Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield all have the ability to become a top 12 QB in this league and that’s about where I have Cousins ranked. I’d rather do it with them and really build a foundation while on their rookie deal. I don’t see immediate success signing Cousins which I thibk is what a lot of people expect.

Several of us have explained this multiple times. 35mill even before next season won’t seem that much. Big name QBs need to resign and will get more than Cousins evening out his price tag. He also averages out in most major QB stats to be a QB between 5-10, so to say he’s not is just personal opinion. Just bc we literally have never had a QB take up cap space doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t do it. That’s actually how most team operate. Let me ask you this? Who’s so good on our roster that we need to pay a huge contract to? Leo? We control him for 2 more seasons? Adams? We control him for 4 more seasons. Who else? We also have 110mill to spend. Only around 25 will go to sign our own, 7mill or so for the draft. Leaving us with 75mill in cap space. You act like we are constrained with cap space. We have all the space in the world. And fact is... if we don’t get Cousins... it’s going to be hard for us to use that cap space. Who else is due for a huge pay day? Bell and Landry? Even if we signed both of them (which won’t happen) we’d still have 40-50mill to spend. Fact is you just don’t like Cousins. It’s ok if you don’t. But to hide behind the money being the issue wall just is a poor stance on it. 

[GangGreen420]

On 2/16/2018 at 9:28 PM, Bobby816 said:

Several of us have explained this multiple times. 35mill even before next season won’t seem that much. Big name QBs need to resign and will get more than Cousins evening out his price tag. He also averages out in most major QB stats to be a QB between 5-10, so to say he’s not is just personal opinion. Just bc we literally have never had a QB take up cap space doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t do it. That’s actually how most team operate. Let me ask you this? Who’s so good on our roster that we need to pay a huge contract to? Leo? We control him for 2 more seasons? Adams? We control him for 4 more seasons. Who else? We also have 110mill to spend. Only around 25 will go to sign our own, 7mill or so for the draft. Leaving us with 75mill in cap space. You act like we are constrained with cap space. We have all the space in the world. And fact is... if we don’t get Cousins... it’s going to be hard for us to use that cap space. Who else is due for a huge pay day? Bell and Landry? Even if we signed both of them (which won’t happen) we’d still have 40-50mill to spend. Fact is you just don’t like Cousins. It’s ok if you don’t. But to hide behind the money being the issue wall just is a poor stance on it. 

I’m not hiding behind the money issue at all. I’ve said many times hes a solid QB. I don’t HATE him, but he’s not a guy I’m giving the largest FA mega deal in history to. And I bet if you made a thread in NFL Gen he’d be closer to 10-12 on most lists than 5-8 but I can see the argument. I know he’s got some good stats but if you dig into them it’s not all pretty. I’m sure you have, shoot even look at his career stats playing in MetLife, they aren’t very good. Bottom line I don’t think he’s quite good enough to really build the franchise around. I’m very skeptical about the coaching staff and somewhat the GM as well though and I’m unsure how signing Cousins affects that situation. Bates is a question mark but I like that hire and it’s a positive to bringing in Cousins if the guy actually sticks around. We all know Bowles loves vet QBs so I assume he wants to go hard after Cousins, but I wouldn’t want that guy around any QB, Cousins or especially a rookie. So that’s a positive to getting Kirk I guess. But bottom line as a player we have differing opinions on him and that’s fine. If we sign this guy and he’s only giving us one playoff birth every 3 years it’s not worth it. Yeah the Jets are not the Redskins but I can only go off of what I’ve actually seen from him.

How are we gonna spend the money? Well we still have a ton of holes on the team that need to be addressed, I’m sure you know what they are. Mac does exactly what he  would do to fill out the roster if Cousins wasn’t a FA/ chooses elsewhere. Are you saying we are SOL if we don’t land him? I’m not positive exactly how much we are required to spend but we have to address some key positions, and they also must take into account free agent/draft busts as well (which is where cap issues could arise in the future.) We spend what we have to on 1-2  big guys (Landry, Norwell, Jensen, etc) and try to spend smart.I haven’t had much time to read into this fully guaranteed contract they are supposedly thinking about, so a lot of it hinders on that also (though I can’t see that actually happening.) Honestly, the Lions are probably one of the teams I follow least in the league so I’m not too familiar with how Staffords deal affected their ability to build (and FTR I wouldn’t have signed Stafford to that deal either probably). Either way it’s a huge cap hit however you want to look at it.

Whether it’s Cousins or a top 3 rookie I just hope we make the right choice. If we sign Cousins, can successfully build around him and he ends up making us an annual playoff team, you can remind me of it all the time and I’ll gladly say I was wrong lol I just really think Mac is going to have to do a much better job than he’s done thus far to actually surround him/know what to surround him with.

I don’t care which one of us is right or wrong on this, we just need Mac to be right.

[Bobby816]

8 hours ago, GangGreen420 said:

I’m not hiding behind the money issue at all. I’ve said many times hes a solid QB. I don’t HATE him, but he’s not a guy I’m giving the largest FA mega deal in history to. And I bet if you made a thread in NFL Gen he’d be closer to 10-12 on most lists than 5-8 but I can see the argument. I know he’s got some good stats but if you dig into them it’s not all pretty. I’m sure you have, shoot even look at his career stats playing in MetLife, they aren’t very good. Bottom line I don’t think he’s quite good enough to really build the franchise around. I’m very skeptical about the coaching staff and somewhat the GM as well though and I’m unsure how signing Cousins affects that situation. Bates is a question mark but I like that hire and it’s a positive to bringing in Cousins if the guy actually sticks around. We all know Bowles loves vet QBs so I assume he wants to go hard after Cousins, but I wouldn’t want that guy around any QB, Cousins or especially a rookie. So that’s a positive to getting Kirk I guess. But bottom line as a player we have differing opinions on him and that’s fine. If we sign this guy and he’s only giving us one playoff birth every 3 years it’s not worth it. Yeah the Jets are not the Redskins but I can only go off of what I’ve actually seen from him.

How are we gonna spend the money? Well we still have a ton of holes on the team that need to be addressed, I’m sure you know what they are. Mac does exactly what he  would do to fill out the roster if Cousins wasn’t a FA/ chooses elsewhere. Are you saying we are SOL if we don’t land him? I’m not positive exactly how much we are required to spend but we have to address some key positions, and they also must take into account free agent/draft busts as well (which is where cap issues could arise in the future.) We spend what we have to on 1-2  big guys (Landry, Norwell, Jensen, etc) and try to spend smart.I haven’t had much time to read into this fully guaranteed contract they are supposedly thinking about, so a lot of it hinders on that also (though I can’t see that actually happening.) Honestly, the Lions are probably one of the teams I follow least in the league so I’m not too familiar with how Staffords deal affected their ability to build (and FTR I wouldn’t have signed Stafford to that deal either probably). Either way it’s a huge cap hit however you want to look at it.

Whether it’s Cousins or a top 3 rookie I just hope we make the right choice. If we sign Cousins, can successfully build around him and he ends up making us an annual playoff team, you can remind me of it all the time and I’ll gladly say I was wrong lol I just really think Mac is going to have to do a much better job than he’s done thus far to actually surround him/know what to surround him with.

I don’t care which one of us is right or wrong on this, we just need Mac to be right.

I get what you’re saying but I don’t think you’re getting what I’m saying. Your issue with Cousins is largely in part due to money he will command. My point is every single FA we try and sign we will have to overspend on. That’s how FA goes when you’re not a top team. We aren’t a desirable franchise right now, so the only way to entice a player to come here is money. So to get this franchise back on track... yes we will have to overspend on FAs. Luckily we have a ton of money to do that and it won’t put us in a cap issue. You named several players you’d spend the money on. But I’ll concentrate on Landry. Landry will probably get big time overpaid. He will probably wind up being a top 5 paid WR when he’s not a top 10 WR. That’s just how FA goes. My point being is that someone or multiple players will have to get overpaid to be a Jet. I’d much rather that money be spent at the most important position in the game. And it is a fact this franchise will have more assets if Cousins is signed. Bc we then don’t have to use a draft pick on a QB, allowing us to add weapons for him perhaps to make him better.

[Bobby816]

Also here’s a list of guys that will all probably get contracts more than Cousins within the next year or so.

Matt Ryan, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Jameis Winston, Marcus Mariota, Cam Newton. So while Cousins will be the highest paid QB once he’s signed. Within in a year he will be back at getting between 5-10 salary more than likely.

[GangGreen420]

9 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I get what you’re saying but I don’t think you’re getting what I’m saying. Your issue with Cousins is largely in part due to money he will command. My point is every single FA we try and sign we will have to overspend on. That’s how FA goes when you’re not a top team. We aren’t a desirable franchise right now, so the only way to entice a player to come here is money. So to get this franchise back on track... yes we will have to overspend on FAs. Luckily we have a ton of money to do that and it won’t put us in a cap issue. You named several players you’d spend the money on. But I’ll concentrate on Landry. Landry will probably get big time overpaid. He will probably wind up being a top 5 paid WR when he’s not a top 10 WR. That’s just how FA goes. My point being is that someone or multiple players will have to get overpaid to be a Jet. I’d much rather that money be spent at the most important position in the game. And it is a fact this franchise will have more assets if Cousins is signed. Bc we then don’t have to use a draft pick on a QB, allowing us to add weapons for him perhaps to make him better.

I’m not even going to go down this hypothetical road. Let’s just agree to disagree.

Its simple, you think Cousins is good enough to warrant backing up the brinks truck for, I don’t.

[MoLewis57]

On 2/16/2018 at 6:47 PM, KodiakThunder said:

A team with a better support system will have more success with Cousins than us becuse of this.

We need guys at EVERY position. Cousins would have to wait 2-3 yrs for us to adequately build a team around him, and my guess is he isnt that patient....Also Washington tried to build a team around him for the last few years, with only a modicrum of success.

Id prefer we signed someone worse snd drafted a QB at 6. Cousins is 100% a massive upgrade at qb, i just dont think its a massive upgrade as a team in the long run. 

Sign a guy like Bridgewater/Gabbert ect and draft a QB at 6. Focus FA money on young OL, Pass Rushers and WR... 

The money might make him patient hahah. 

I feel like we are on the same page for the most part.

I love the idea of throwing our money on young OL, pass rushers,  WR. I just feel like with adding Cousins we can get started right away building the team and not hope we draft a guy as good as we already know he is. 

 

[Bobby816]

I think a legit question yet people against Cousins have to ask themselves is this... why would FAs want to come here on offense with us not having a QB or really any weapons on offense? Why would Jensen sign here? Richburg, Norwell, AR15, Graham, etc? Getting Cousins is what will help us entice other FAs to come here. Otherwise I think it will be a big struggle for us to use our cap space in a good way to build this team.

[doumeyer]

8 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I think a legit question yet people against Cousins have to ask themselves is this... why would FAs want to come here on offense with us not having a QB or really any weapons on offense? Why would Jensen sign here? Richburg, Norwell, AR15, Graham, etc? Getting Cousins is what will help us entice other FAs to come here. Otherwise I think it will be a big struggle for us to use our cap space in a good way to build this team.

I doubt very much that we will sign Cousins, but if we do that will be great. Then we can use our top four draft picks to plug holes in our roster plus any FA we pick up.. What would really be ironic if we sign Cousins and so some reason or another Rosen fall to us at six when we pick. If we don't sign Cousins,  we just sit tight at six and see what Mac famous plan B will be. I still think Mac is going to pull a rabbit out of his hat and get us one of the young QB's, but don't ask me how.

[Rockice_8]

10 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

I think a legit question yet people against Cousins have to ask themselves is this... why would FAs want to come here on offense with us not having a QB or really any weapons on offense? Why would Jensen sign here? Richburg, Norwell, AR15, Graham, etc? Getting Cousins is what will help us entice other FAs to come here. Otherwise I think it will be a big struggle for us to use our cap space in a good way to build this team.

This is a legitimate point that should not be ignored.  We very well could offer more money than most and could be "Browned" by players taking slightly less to play with a winner.  Yes I made "Browned" a verb.

Anyway I think we won't get completely shut out of FA but we may have to overspend to lock guys up.  It's certainly something as Bobby said that should not be completely ignored.