The Teams Biggest Need Is Still...

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

7 hours ago, DaBoys said:

Well it’s instinct to try to breakdown losses in an attempt to identify areas that could be improved upon in football’s future. What else is there to do here? But ultimately yes we have suffered from a multitude of areas in our losses. 

The 3rd quarter Kittle bobble catch could have been prevented if Diggs would have laid a finger on him instead of whiffing. The Diggs interception drop may have hurt even more. Trevon Diggs was bad that game. But the defense did hold them to 17 points.

The year before, Randy Gregory was called for a legit but unnecessary penalty with 1:38 left in the game. Negated a 2 yard TFL that would have made it 3rd and 11 and possibly given the ball back with time. The game was essentially over after that. BUT why do we only have 17 points with less than 2 mins left in the game? That’s not a defense issue. 

Dak was great against Tampa Bay but the OC was bad against the 49ers? Y’all didn’t like those roll out plays KM dished out in TB? 

My contention is with some people’s desire to boil it down to one thing. Dak is the reason we can’t make it further in the playoffs. No, it’s the play callers. No, it’s Dak.

No… it’s both of them, and more.

Any legitimate effort to break our issues down in a non-myopic fashion, as you’ve done in your post here, is a terrific contribution the the conversation in my book.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Nextyearfordaboyz

[DaBoys]

On 6/6/2023 at 10:54 AM, TVScout said:

We haven't had that guy since Roger.

 

[WheatieMan]

22 hours ago, D82 said:

No...no...you don't give up assets that high for a RB that is on his last legs. 

Yeah but the window is now. Prescott has 1-2 more years of top 10 play. He’s losing mobility and has been woefully inaccurate at times. You think he’s going to just stop turning it over? Maybe two third rounders then. He’s still much better than Zeke. You need three effective guys back there.

[D82]

1 hour ago, WheatieMan said:

Yeah but the window is now. Prescott has 1-2 more years of top 10 play. He’s losing mobility and has been woefully inaccurate at times. You think he’s going to just stop turning it over? Maybe two third rounders then. He’s still much better than Zeke. You need three effective guys back there.

One bad year and suddenly everyone thinks the guy is turnover prone. You do realize Josh Allen has had more turnovers at critical points than Dak has? I don't see anyone in Buffalo rushing to get rid of him. 

And saying he's better than Zeke isn't saying much. Why trade for Henry when you could possibly get Dalvin Cook as a FA or sign any of a number of guys currently on the street and get similar production? 

 

[WheatieMan]

On 6/7/2023 at 7:46 PM, D82 said:

One bad year and suddenly everyone thinks the guy is turnover prone. You do realize Josh Allen has had more turnovers at critical points than Dak has? I don't see anyone in Buffalo rushing to get rid of him. 

And saying he's better than Zeke isn't saying much. Why trade for Henry when you could possibly get Dalvin Cook as a FA or sign any of a number of guys currently on the street and get similar production? 

 

The Cook thing happened more recently, but may not complement Pollard. It’s an option as well. I don’t see how we go in there with Pollard and a 5’6” rookie that may or may not be the next Darren Sproles. Ronald Jones is done. I don’t see why the Titans would get rid of him in that sorry division, but I’d make a call.

 

[DaBoys]

On 6/7/2023 at 6:46 PM, D82 said:

One bad year and suddenly everyone thinks the guy is turnover prone.

You think 23 TDs and 15 interceptions is one bad year?

So you must think 2017 was bad as well, at 22 TDs and 13 ints. So his 2018 year with 22 TDs and 8 ints wasn’t great either then. Then in 2020 he only played 5 games and had 4 interceptions, so that wasn’t going great. 

It isn’t just one bad year. He’s had several. This was just his worst, by a smidge. 

On 6/7/2023 at 6:46 PM, D82 said:

You do realize Josh Allen has had more turnovers at critical points than Dak has? I don't see anyone in Buffalo rushing to get rid of him. 

This is the lamest argument on Cowboys Twitter in favor of Dak. It reminds me of Matts comparing Dak to Tom Brady after his rookie season. Or the argument that Dak is just like Peyton Manning because Manning had most of his success after year 7.

The thing is, people in Buffalo DO want Allen to cut down on interceptions. The reason they don’t want him gone is because he also makes plays. 

Since entering the league Allen has been responsible for 176 TDs. Dak has 135 in that same time. So them having similar TO numbers doesn’t make them even. It makes Dak look worse actually for having the same number of interceptions as a guy who’s accounted for over FORTY more TDs than him. 

Edited June 9, 2023 by DaBoys

[DaBoys]

Saying Dak is just like Josh Allen because they have similar TO numbers is like like saying Allen Lazard is just like Waddle or Amari Cooper because they all had 6 drops last year. It doesn’t work that way. Factor in production and the eye test. Nobody besides a conglomerate of extremely biased Cowboys fans think Dak is as good as Allen. 

[quiller]

On 6/7/2023 at 4:46 PM, D82 said:

One bad year and suddenly everyone thinks the guy is turnover prone. You do realize Josh Allen has had more turnovers at critical points than Dak has? I don't see anyone in Buffalo rushing to get rid of him. 

And saying he's better than Zeke isn't saying much. Why trade for Henry when you could possibly get Dalvin Cook as a FA or sign any of a number of guys currently on the street and get similar production? 

 

I love Henry he is a top three at very least RB in NFL but at this point his value to this team is not worth it unless we can get him with out giving up a 1st.  The other issue is his contract.  It would be an all n move like the Rams did but it would be risky.   
In regard to Dak I am a huge Dak supporter probably one of if not the top one on this board.  But at this point Dak has to have a play off series with out a SF game result for anyone to truly counter those opposed to him.  It doesn’t matter that Allen Brady Rogers all had in effect as bad or worse 2022 than Dak.  It doesn’t matter that 2022 was a huge outlier for him in throwing interceptions.  His SF result is the  exclamation point to the year.  

Edited June 9, 2023 by quiller

[quiller]

8 hours ago, DaBoys said:

Saying Dak is just like Josh Allen because they have similar TO numbers is like like saying Allen Lazard is just like Waddle or Amari Cooper because they all had 6 drops last year. It doesn’t work that way. Factor in production and the eye test. Nobody besides a conglomerate of extremely biased Cowboys fans think Dak is as good as Allen. 

You see this is kinda what also drives me crazy in this debate also.  While I agree that for the most part I have Allen ahead of Dak, Allen wasn’t “better” than Dak last year.  Allen also to this point lt had not accomplished anything either in his career either failing in the playoffs much like Dak has.  So why is Allen over Dak well eye test sure I guess but it comes to a point of Allen does not get to a Super Bowl ….   How can we truly say well he is a “better” QB 

[matt79511]

39 minutes ago, quiller said:

You see this is kinda what also drives me crazy in this debate also.  While I agree that for the most part I have Allen ahead of Dak, Allen wasn’t “better” than Dak last year.  Allen also to this point lt had not accomplished anything either in his career either failing in the playoffs much like Dak has.  So why is Allen over Dak well eye test sure I guess but it comes to a point of Allen does not get to a Super Bowl ….   How can we truly say well he is a “better” QB 

I’ve seen a lot of people try to make this case and I have to say I don’t get it. They were equal players last year because their teams both went down in the second round? Because one guy threw 15 INTs (in 12 games) and the other threw 14 (in 16)? I’m not sure that tracks.

Dak is solidly the 8th or 9th best QB rn. He did enough last year to stay ahead of the Goffs and Cousinses of the league. But Allen is a cut above, in the 2-4 range. It’s not close.

[DaBoys]

10 hours ago, quiller said:

Allen wasn’t “better” than Dak last year.

What? Yes… he was. By every measure. 
 

Record as starter:

Allen 14-4

Dak 9-5

Pass YPG:

Allen 6th

Dak 13th

TD%

Allen 3rd

Dak 5th

INT%

Allen 24th

Dak 33rd

Pass YPA

Allen 8th

Dak 22nd

Passer Rating

Allen 8th

Dsk 17th

QBR

Allen 2nd

Dak 12th

ANY/A

Allen 6th

Dak 16th

 

It’s not even close, and that’s strictly throwing the ball. Factor in Allen having 762 rush yards and 7 rush TDs and the comparison gets more wild considering Dak had 182 rush yards and 1 TD on the ground. 

But somehow he didn’t have a better year because he only threw 1 less INT in 4 more games? Insane 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by DaBoys

[DaBoys]

9 hours ago, matt79511 said:

Dak is solidly the 8th or 9th best QB rn. He did enough last year to stay ahead of the Goffs and Cousinses of the league. 

I still think when it comes to pure arm talent, and QB abilities ARod and Stafford are on a higher level than Dak despite their age. If starting a franchise I’m probably picking Dak, but if I needed a QB for one season in 2023 I’m probably rolling the dice with Arod or Stafford. I’m just not comfortable saying Dak is better than either of them right now. Then there’s the younger guys:

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Lawrence, Lamar, Hurts, and Tua to round out the top 10.

Then there’s your Dak, Goff, Geno, Cousins, Danny Dimes, Fields, Kyler Murray tier at 11-17. This group is pretty liquid. 

Goff finished 2022 with 7 interceptions. Didn’t throw a single pick in his final 9 games, while finishing 6th in passing yards. Not sure how you think Dak did enough to stay ahead of that. Geno had a better 2022 than Dak. Especially when you compare the playoff games against SF. But most people would want Dak going forward.  But If you polled the GMs in the NFL about which QB they’d want going forward out of Dak or Kyler Murray, most would pick 25 year old Murray, Despite Dak having the better 2022. So it’s hard to pin down where to rank him. 

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by DaBoys

[TVScout]

4 hours ago, DaBoys said:

Goff finished 2022 with 7 interceptions. Didn’t throw a single pick in his final 9 games, while finishing 6th in passing yards.

How often did his WRs run the wrong route? How many passes bounced off the WRs body? How often was he running for his life after the pass blocking broke down?

[matt79511]

5 hours ago, DaBoys said:

I still think when it comes to pure arm talent, and QB abilities ARod and Stafford are on a higher level than Dak despite their age. If starting a franchise I’m probably picking Dak, but if I needed a QB for one season in 2023 I’m probably rolling the dice with Arod or Stafford. I’m just not comfortable saying Dak is better than either of them right now. Then there’s the younger guys:

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert, Lawrence, Lamar, Hurts, and Tua to round out the top 10.

Then there’s your Dak, Goff, Geno, Cousins, Danny Dimes, Fields, Kyler Murray tier at 11-17. This group is pretty liquid. 

Goff finished 2022 with 7 interceptions. Didn’t throw a single pick in his final 9 games, while finishing 6th in passing yards. Not sure how you think Dak did enough to stay ahead of that. Geno had a better 2022 than Dak. Especially when you compare the playoff games against SF. But most people would want Dak going forward.  But If you polled the GMs in the NFL about which QB they’d want going forward out of Dak or Kyler Murray, most would pick 25 year old Murray, Despite Dak having the better 2022. So it’s hard to pin down where to rank him. 

 

 

 

Stafford to me isn’t in the conversation anymore, I wouldn’t touch that back of his. Tua, like Stafford, I also have lower than Dak due to his concussion history. Think the rest of your Top 10 is on point.

As for Goff… still don’t think he’s done enough in Detroit to make up for being salary dumped by the team that drafted him. He’s just a year removed from going 3-10-1 as a starter- Dallas has never been that kind of cellar dweller with Dak. Another 4:1 TD:INT rate from Goff in 2023 while Dak posts another 3:2 one and I will reconsider. For now I’m skeptical, still think Dak is more valuable down to down even if others are a little more consistent.

[plan9misfit]

12 hours ago, TVScout said:

How often did his WRs run the wrong route? How many passes bounced off the WRs body? How often was he running for his life after the pass blocking broke down?

And how often does that happen to literally every QB in the league? It amazes me that it’s always someone else’s fault or just “bad luck” when Dak proves that he can’t get the job done. Do you want to know what the successful QBs do when that happens? They find a way to win, anyway.