Biggest HOF Snubs?

[CP3MVP]

I always thought Saturday was a good not great center who got overrated because he played on a classic offense and most people simply don’t know centers. 
 

His last pro bowl selection was embarrassing 

[MWil23]

1 hour ago, CP3MVP said:

One of the best linebackers to ever play this game and the leader of a great orange crush defense. Their problem was they never won “the big one” 

Similarly nonsense on Clay Matthews Jr for Cleveland IMO.

[HerbertGOAT]

Maybe not the biggest snub, but I think Priest Holmes deserves to be in. Arguably nobody in NFL history was more productive for a 3/4 year span.

He has as many TDs as Bettis and Marshawn Lynch. He has more TDs than Tony Dorsett, Edgerrin James, Thurman Thomas, OJ, Gronk, Jim Taylor, Antonio Brown, and Reggie Wayne.

He had more TDs from 2001-2004 than Torry Holt, Fred Taylor, Earl Campbell, Roger Craig, Travis Kelce, Larry Csonka, and Terrell Davis have in their entire careers.

From 2001-2003, he AVERAGED almost 2200 Yards from Scrimmage and 21 TDs.

From 2001-2004, per 17 games he averaged 2400 yards from scrimmage and 24 TDs.

Obviously, the great Chiefs OL from that era gets some of the credit too, but Priest Holmes is still one of the most productive backs in NFL history.

He also has a ring, so you know he's a gritty winner with the it-factor.

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, HerbertGOAT said:

Maybe not the biggest snub, but I think Priest Holmes deserves to be in. Arguably nobody in NFL history was more productive for a 3/4 year span.

He has as many TDs as Bettis and Marshawn Lynch. He has more TDs than Tony Dorsett, Edgerrin James, Thurman Thomas, OJ, Gronk, Jim Taylor, Antonio Brown, and Reggie Wayne.

He had more TDs from 2001-2004 than Torry Holt, Fred Taylor, Earl Campbell, Roger Craig, Travis Kelce, Larry Csonka, and Terrell Davis have in their entire careers.

From 2001-2003, he AVERAGED almost 2200 Yards from Scrimmage and 21 TDs.

From 2001-2004, per 17 games he averaged 2400 yards from scrimmage and 24 TDs.

Obviously, the great Chiefs OL from that era gets some of the credit too, but Priest Holmes is still one of the most productive backs in NFL history.

He also has a ring, so you know he's a gritty winner with the it-factor.

Holmes had great production but I don't think he is viewed as a true HOFer. 

He was on the Ravens and had every opportunity to establish himself as starter, but the Ravens drafted Jamal Lewis in 2000 and he was a clear upgrade over Holmes.

That's not to diminish what he did in KC, but I think he was a clear product of the system, akin to Clinton Portis perhaps.  

[Mr Bad Example]

17 hours ago, AngusMcFife said:

Holmes had great production but I don't think he is viewed as a true HOFer. 

He was on the Ravens and had every opportunity to establish himself as starter, but the Ravens drafted Jamal Lewis in 2000 and he was a clear upgrade over Holmes.

That's not to diminish what he did in KC, but I think he was a clear product of the system, akin to Clinton Portis perhaps.  

I guess it depends - "system" is why Terrell Davis took so long to get in, but I always called it "the Sayers Exception"  - in the absence of compilation stats, does this player have an argument for being in the elite tier, if not the absolute best, at his position over a 4 or 5 yr stretch? Holmes certainly qualifies, as does TD, Sharpe, and also Sayers. 

I mean, look at the arc of OJ Simpson's career (off field stuff ugh, but definitely his production is worthy of induction - 5 transcendent years bookended by 2 meh ones on the front and 2 washed ones on the back. 

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Mr Bad Example said:

I guess it depends - "system" is why Terrell Davis took so long to get in, but I always called it "the Sayers Exception"  - in the absence of compilation stats, does this player have an argument for being in the elite tier, if not the absolute best, at his position over a 4 or 5 yr stretch? Holmes certainly qualifies, as does TD, Sharpe, and also Sayers. 

I mean, look at the arc of OJ Simpson's career (off field stuff ugh, but definitely his production is worthy of induction - 5 transcendent years bookended by 2 meh ones on the front and 2 washed ones on the back. 

The difference is that when people watched Sayers and Terrell Davis play, their reaction often was "that's one of the best RBs I've ever seen". Nobody says that regarding Holmes. 

I don't remember people thinking Holmes was in the same tier as LaDanian Tomlinson, or even Ricky Williams or Corey Dillon. 

[Jakuvious]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:07 AM, AngusMcFife said:

The difference is that when people watched Sayers and Terrell Davis play, their reaction often was "that's one of the best RBs I've ever seen". Nobody says that regarding Holmes. 

I don't remember people thinking Holmes was in the same tier as LaDanian Tomlinson, or even Ricky Williams or Corey Dillon. 

Your memory is off, then. Holmes was absolutely viewed as the best for his peak stretch. Was just a short window. Most of his peak was honestly before LT really took over as well, for that matter. Holmes's peak was kind of sandwiched right between the peaks of Faulk and LT. Holmes was 01 - 04, Faulk faded after 01, LT took best RB status in 04, same year Holmes got hurt. But absolutely no one would've had Ricky Williams or Corey Dillon above him. It was Faulk, then Holmes, the LT, for that stretch, with a little bit of Edge, Jamal Lewis, Tiki Barber, and Shaun Alexander as one offs sprinkled in there for their respective peak seasons.

[AngusMcFife]

8 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

Your memory is off, then. Holmes was absolutely viewed as the best for his peak stretch. Was just a short window. Most of his peak was honestly before LT really took over as well, for that matter. Holmes's peak was kind of sandwiched right between the peaks of Faulk and LT. Holmes was 01 - 04, Faulk faded after 01, LT took best RB status in 04, same year Holmes got hurt. But absolutely no one would've had Ricky Williams or Corey Dillon above him. It was Faulk, then Holmes, the LT, for that stretch, with a little bit of Edge, Jamal Lewis, Tiki Barber, and Shaun Alexander as one offs sprinkled in there for their respective peak seasons.

Larry Johnson stepped in for Holmes when he was injured in 2004 and was just as good as Holmes for the next couple years. The offense didn't miss a beat. Jamal Lewis was considered much better than Holmes in Baltimore in 2000. Holmes had a nice stretch 2001-2003 and half of 2004. 

True football connoisseurs could tell that Holmes's production was due to the great KC O-line with **** Vermeil as coach. Holmes was obviously a good player and meshed well with the offense. But he was not a true bell cow because of his size, and it became obvious once Larry Johnson was just as dominant as Holmes that it was the O-line and Vermeil that were driving the offense. 

[Duluther]

Priest Holmes' run was at its tail-end when I began watching, but my dad would say about him, "he's always right up their as the best back in the league until about week 10 when he gets his annual injury." I don't know how accurate this is, but he was a fairly astute non-Chiefs NFL fan.

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, Duluther said:

Priest Holmes' run was at its tail-end when I began watching, but my dad would say about him, "he's always right up their as the best back in the league until about week 10 when he gets his annual injury." I don't know how accurate this is, but he was a fairly astute non-Chiefs NFL fan.

One of the best backs in the league is fair. Thinking he was a HOF back is an entirely different tier when you consider he was 2nd string to Jamal Lewis, and Larry Johnson was equally effective as Holmes when he replaced him in the Chiefs offense. 

[Duluther]

13 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

One of the best backs in the league is fair. Thinking he was a HOF back is an entirely different tier when you consider he was 2nd string to Jamal Lewis, and Larry Johnson was equally effective as Holmes when he replaced him in the Chiefs offense. 

I did watch Larry Johnson and by then, I'm sure the offense evolved as Larry was a workhorse back (and for a couple years, a great one). What I know of Holmes suggests the two may have produced fairly equally, but their effectiveness (or efficiency) was not equal. 

[AngusMcFife]

40 minutes ago, Duluther said:

I did watch Larry Johnson and by then, I'm sure the offense evolved as Larry was a workhorse back (and for a couple years, a great one). What I know of Holmes suggests the two may have produced fairly equally, but their effectiveness (or efficiency) was not equal. 

Well Larry Johnson was 1st in rushing DVOA and DYAR in 2005, so I'm not sure about your claims about efficiency. Johnson was also 1st in rushing DVOA in 2004 when he and Holmes split time due to Holmes's injury. 

I'll grant you, I think Holmes was better than Johnson. But it doesn't really bolster a HOF case when a guy gets injured and his replacement comes in and does more or less the same as him for a year and half. 

My memories of that Chiefs team are mostly of a dominant offensive line just mauling teams. I remember Ray Lewis mic'ed up on MNF: "I'm getting doubled every play. IT'S JUST NOT POSSIBLE!"  

[CP3MVP]

The chiefs of the early 2000’s are one of the forgotten  great offenses 

Football-outsiders did their greatest offenses of the last 30 years lost and a few of those chiefs teams were in the top 15 

Edited June 22, 2023 by CP3MVP

[Steelersfan43]

3 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

The chiefs of the early 2000’s are one of the forgotten  great offenses 

Football-outsiders did their greatest offenses of the last 30 years lost and a few of those chiefs teams were in the top 15 

But they had no defense!

[THE DUKE]

Willie Anderson was arguably the best RT of his generation, he was just unrecognized on a lot of bad Bengals teams. He gave up just 16 sacks in his entire 13 year career.  He didn't make an All Pro team until his 8th year in the league despite him being just as, if not more dominant in years 2-7.  He still made 4 all pro teams once the Bengals turned it around under Marvin Lewis.

Edited June 23, 2023 by THE DUKE