Who will win the NFC North in 2023?

[Spartacus]

1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

Are we underrating the Vikings in this thread? I know all indications point to a drop off from last year, but have we gone too far?

I think in general yes. There offense is should still be top 10. There defense will most likely still be bad but it wouldn't shock me one bit if they took the division again. That said I think its less underrating the Vikings, Bears, or Packers and more the vast overrating of the Lions. 

[cconocool]

One item I would pose against the Vikings is the schedule, but I have not examined the other NFC North teams' schedules. 

I know the Vikings' schedule looks pretty rough.

[Malfatron]

Gonna go with detroit with the majority

I got gb winning 7 though

[Mr Bad Example]

On 7/17/2023 at 11:54 AM, cconocool said:

One item I would pose against the Vikings is the schedule, but I have not examined the other NFC North teams' schedules. 

I know the Vikings' schedule looks pretty rough.

Bengals, Phi, SF are tough draws. Otherwise AFC West/NFC South for out of division opponents isn't that bad. KC is the only one you immediately put down as a loss. 

[JDBrocks]

@viking was right though - @Nnivolcm has no idea what he's talking about in terms of losing vet talent. All of the guys that left outside of Tomlinson (admittedly the biggest loss on the defense), were past their primes, or didn't fit the scheme well.

Cook - one of the least effective RB in the league last year, and has gotten worse over the past 3 seasons. 55th out of 69 qualified RB in RYOE. He's lost nearly all of his burst. He still has great top end speed, but it takes him way longer to get there, and he needs wide open rushing lanes to get started.
Thielen - 2.7 yards of separation per route run last year and relied on great RZ schemes from O'Connell. One of my favorite Vikings and I was sad that they couldn't work out a way to keep him, but he can't be the #2 in this offense.
Kendricks - not a fit in a 3-4, lost a step and was one of the worst tacklers on the team last year. Very steep decline from 2019 when he was one of the best 4-3 MLBs in the game.
Z - I'm gonna miss him, and despite not having as many sacks in the second half, he was effective from a pressure standpoint despite the injury. The injuries are why I'm ok moving on and giving the younger depth more of a shot. 
Peterson - can't play in press man anymore. Not a fit in Flores' Defense

Now add Flores, who will use Harrison Smith in the ways that made him a borderline HOF player instead of 2 high all the time, won't make Hunter play in coverage, will blitz, and will adapt situationally. Also add Lewis Cine, who is basically a 1st round pick that didn't play last year. Jordan Hicks will play downhill and at the LOS more often, rather than trying to cover RBs in the flat and on wheel routes and getting cooked every game.

It's not sustainable to play that many 1 score games, but the reason they were one score games was a miserable DC and defense. Most of those 1 score games included double digit leads for the Vikings. 

I think both the Lions and Vikings have a shot at the division, and don't fault anyone for saying Lions. If you are going to talk about the Vikings specifically, don't say things that are just factually incorrect.