Justin Fields

[topwop1]

9 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

No pretty normal media speak would be to downplay the question and say those things really aren't your decision...your hear to do your job and the front office/coaches will do theirs...

Flat out getting a little offended your being asked the question then saying neither of the two guys coming out are better is a stronger statement than it had to be if it was just "player speak"

Of course he's probably annoyed he's getting asked these same stupid questions week after week when he already gave that answer you mentioned of saying that this kind of stuff is up to the front office. Go back and look if you don't believe me.

Anyway I'm not saying I don't want Justin back..but we have to be realistic now that there's a good possibility he's not, and Poles and the front office likely won't be influenced by anyone on this decision whether it's the players in that locker room I the fans like you and I

Brad Biggs alluded to this earlier last week and he usually doesn't just spit out these kinds of things randomly for clicks

Now Carolina winning might throw a wrench into that idea depending on what happens the remaining 3 weeks but as of now we have to be prepared that there's a good chance they move on 

[beardown3231]

 

But DJ Moore, Roquan Smith and noted wife beater Brandon Marshall all think he should be back, so

[topwop1]

25 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

Would I take Davis or Cooks over Mooney? In a heartbeat

Would I take Shakir or Gallup over apparently no #3? In a heartbeat

I would take Pollard over any RB on any of these three teams in a heartbeat as well

Dallas have one of the best offensive lines in football with two legit HoFers on it...I would swap it for ours in a heartbeat

Buffalo I would say is a push with our OL but both those teams have more talent around their QBs than we do.

Those guys you mentioned you'd rather have aren't exactly lighting the world on fire this year in comparison to Mooney and our RBs so I'm not sure that's really supporting your argument much..that's more of a personal preference

Question though...why is Mooney suddenly no longer a good weapon for Fields..I mean wasn't this the guy that had over 1000 yards just two seasons ago with Dalton and a rookie Fields..and more yards and tds last season vs this season, albeit in two less games?

This guy used to be talked about as a good young receiver and now people can't wait to discard him for an 'upgrade'

Don't get me wrong either ..I think we could always use some more talented receivers but I think the excuses for Fields are just pathetic at this point in his career 

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by topwop1

[Madmike90]

5 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Of course he's probably annoyed he's getting asked these same stupid questions week after week when he already gave that answer you mentioned of saying that this kind of stuff is up to the front office. Go back and look if you don't believe me.

Anyway I'm not saying I don't want Justin back..but we have to be realistic now that there's a good possibility he's not, and Poles and the front office likely won't be influenced by anyone on this decision whether it's the players in that locker room I the fans like you and I

Brad Biggs alluded to this earlier last week and he usually doesn't just spit out these kinds of things randomly for clicks

Now Carolina winning might throw a wrench into that idea depending on what happens the remaining 3 weeks but as of now we have to be prepared that there's a good chance they move on 

He is getting annoyed because he has an excellent connection with Fields and he probably doesn't want to give up on that because we have not done a good enough job of giving him some more talent to work with over the years he has been there...it is no coincidence Fields is far better throwing to Moore than anyone else.

And I am not saying I will be furious if we move on from Fields at some point but you better be 100% sure he is not the guy before you do because there is a strong likelihood that if he goes somewhere with more talent he is going to look like a star because he won't be expected to do as much as he has been here.

I get what Biggs said...I also get what Peter King said...this is not going to be an easy decision whichever way it goes but in my eyes today is a perfect example of just how lacking the support has been for Fields in his time here and a real indication that dropping a rookie QB regardless of how good they are into the same situation will probably produce similar results instead of building around Fields to give him the best possible change of succeeding and if he can't then drop a talent rookie into an already talented offence. 

[Madmike90]

3 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

Those guys you mentioned you'd rather have aren't exactly lighting the world on fire this year in comparison to Mooney and our RBs so I'm not sure that's really supporting your argument much..that's more of a personal preference

Question though...why is Mooney suddenly no longer a good weapon for Fields..I mean wasn't this the guy that had over 1000 yards just two seasons ago with Dalton and a rookie Fields..and more yards and tds last season vs this season, albeit in two less games?

This guy used to be talked about as a good young receiver and now people can't wait to discard him for an 'upgrade'

Don't get me wrong either ..I think we could always use some more talented receivers but I think the excuses for Fields are just pathetic at this point in his career 

 

I would still rather have any of them...especially Gabe Davis & the Cowboys OL...

I don't think Mooney has ever been the same player since the ankle injury...he was never exactly a physical WR but now he is flat out soft and it impacts his concentration when trying to bring the ball in on tougher catches...he had 3 drops last week...2 this week...I am not saying he should have caught them all but 2 or 3 out the 5 is what I would expect...I also don't think he is as explosive as he used to be either or as good in & out of his cuts...the sharpness just isn't there.

[TankWilliams]

I see the team moving on at this point.  I don't know that Caleb Williams is the slam dunk that everyone seems to think, but is be pretty surprised to see the team not take their shot, unless Carolina manages to move down the draft boards a bit. 

[topwop1]

4 minutes ago, Madmike90 said:

He is getting annoyed because he has an excellent connection with Fields and he probably doesn't want to give up on that because we have not done a good enough job of giving him some more talent to work with over the years he has been there...it is no coincidence Fields is far better throwing to Moore than anyone else.

And I am not saying I will be furious if we move on from Fields at some point but you better be 100% sure he is not the guy before you do because there is a strong likelihood that if he goes somewhere with more talent he is going to look like a star because he won't be expected to do as much as he has been here.

I get what Biggs said...I also get what Peter King said...this is not going to be an easy decision whichever way it goes but in my eyes today is a perfect example of just how lacking the support has been for Fields in his time here and a real indication that dropping a rookie QB regardless of how good they are into the same situation will probably produce similar results instead of building around Fields to give him the best possible change of succeeding and if he can't then drop a talent rookie into an already talented offence. 

How would it be the same situation?

We have two firsts so even if one is used on a QB the second one could theoretically be used to add talent around him by grabbing a WR like Nabers/Odunze or even Bowers at TE

As we've seen the second half of this season the defense has really come one and should be good enough to keep us in games going forward 

Add in that they'll likely get some decent draft capital back in a potential Fields trade if that's the route they so choose to go then they can use that to keep building the team around a rookie  QB

[Madmike90]

Just now, topwop1 said:

How would it be the same situation?

We have two firsts so even if one is used on a QB the second one could theoretically be used to add talent around him by grabbing a WR like Nabers/Odunze or even Bowers at TE

As we've seen the second half of this season the defense has really come one and should be good enough to keep us in games going forward 

Add in that they'll likely get some decent draft capital back in a potential Fields trade if that's the route they so choose to go then they can use that to keep building the team around a rookie  QB

Take Caleb #1 overall...take Nabers #7 overall

Take MHJ #3 overall...take Bowers #7 overall...take a Center at the top of the 2nd...have an additional 1st & 3rd in 2025 & 2nd in 2026

That is how the situation is different.

[topwop1]

1 minute ago, Madmike90 said:

Take Caleb #1 overall...take Nabers #7 overall

Take MHJ #3 overall...take Bowers #7 overall...take a Center at the top of the 2nd...have an additional 1st & 3rd in 2025 & 2nd in 2026

That is how the situation is different.

Your idea is not very realistic. Doubt they would draft two skill position players that high, especially a TE, for as good as Bowers has been in college 

Also we don't have a 2nd in this draft. We traded that for Sweat remember? Unless they trade down with their second 1st, but then you wouldn't be able to get Bowers

Though we could potentially get a 2nd back if we trade Fields depending on how many teams are desperate?

[Madmike90]

Just now, topwop1 said:

Your idea is not very realistic. Doubt they would draft two skill position players that high, especially a TE, for as good as Bowers has been in college 

Also we don't have a 2nd in this draft. We traded that for Sweat remember? Unless they trade down with their second 1st, but then you wouldn't be able to get Bowers

Though we could potentially get a 2nd back if we trade Fields depending on how many teams are desperate?

Yes we would get the 2nd back...right now I would project...

#1

for

2024 1st & 2nd

2025 1st & 3rd

2026 2nd

And I hate this concept of not using multiple picks to attack a position of need especially when you are generating additional resources to do so...if you suck at WR then attack the position...if we sucked on the OL or DL I would have no issue using two high picks on that either...taking a WR and then another WR or TE that highly is something I have zero issue with.

[Epyon]

Yeah I'm all for stacking weapons this draft, regardless of QB..

w/ Fields I'm targeting MHJ + Nabers or Bowers

w/ Caleb I'm targeting Nabers (or Bowers), and some kind of additional trade to get in between picks 25-40 and draft Xavier Legette-WR, Troy Franklin-WR, or JaTavion Sanders- Move TE..... Johny Wilson-WR also somewhere in that mix as well...

That all said, I'd also need to get opinions from both the next OC and Caleb on what kind of receivers they actually like/want. My picks trended towards bigger guys with speed, but they might prefer the shiftier guys like  Worthy or Ladd McConkey, or more possession type guys.

[AZBearsFan]

7 hours ago, beardown3231 said:

Did I say anything that was wrong? Everyone said in year 3 Fields needed a better OL and a #1 WR. He got it, and now the same people are saying he needs more.

Would Nabers and a guy like Josh Reynolds be nice? Yes. Would it help any QB? Yes, but if he specifically needs all of that, maybe it's time to move on and find a better player to throw them the ball.

Even if Scott catches his and Tonyan catches his, Fields is still throwing for 54% today and about 6 yards per attempt. That isn't good enough even in a win. (mind you, Cleveland dropped 2 INT's and he fumbled again after standing in the pocket for 5 seconds)

So, no, we shouldn't. He was the same Fields today. It's too up and down as a thrower. Very rarely are QB's surrounded by 3 great receivers and 3-4 Pro Bowlers on the OL.

C’mon, you know as well as any of the rest of us that if Tonyan catches that ball EVERYTHING today is different. Fields wasn’t great today, but he good enough to deserve to win that game, and was far better than his stat line. Nobody is saying Fields doesn’t need to continue to improve, but to say he hasn’t continued to improve in 2023 over 2022 is flatly ignoring so much that says otherwise. Whether or not it’s enough to keep him over drafting Williams is a different discussion. 

Oh, and FWIW, Lamar was 14-24 for 171 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT plus 97 rush yards tonight and they scored 23 points. Nobody in Baltimore is saying he’s not good enough to win with given the team full of top talent around him. 

[CWood21]

4 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

Yes we would get the 2nd back...right now I would project...

#1

for

2024 1st & 2nd

2025 1st & 3rd

2026 2nd

And I hate this concept of not using multiple picks to attack a position of need especially when you are generating additional resources to do so...if you suck at WR then attack the position...if we sucked on the OL or DL I would have no issue using two high picks on that either...taking a WR and then another WR or TE that highly is something I have zero issue with.

ASSUMING that the Bears were trading back to #3 like you suggested in that last proposal, that'd be an astronomically high price tag for the Cardinals to pay.  And quite frankly, I'd probably anticipate them telling the Bears to buzz off.  The RG3 trade (3 FRPs and a SRP) was the highest we've seen a team trade up for a QB, and Washington moved up from 6 to 2.  And I'd venture a guess that the RG3 trade probably is going to keep teams from trading the farm away for Caleb Williams.  It's a little outdated, but I'd imagine that trade swap would be somewhere between the RG3 trade and the Eli Manning trade.

[chisoxguy7]

30 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

ASSUMING that the Bears were trading back to #3 like you suggested in that last proposal, that'd be an astronomically high price tag for the Cardinals to pay.  And quite frankly, I'd probably anticipate them telling the Bears to buzz off.  The RG3 trade (3 FRPs and a SRP) was the highest we've seen a team trade up for a QB, and Washington moved up from 6 to 2.  And I'd venture a guess that the RG3 trade probably is going to keep teams from trading the farm away for Caleb Williams.  It's a little outdated, but I'd imagine that trade swap would be somewhere between the RG3 trade and the Eli Manning trade.

We got two firsts, two seconds, and DJ Moore to move from 1 to 9 last season.

Changing out DJ Moore for a third round pick to move from 1 to 3 instead of 1 to 9 doesn't seem that far off in terms of value.

[AZBearsFan]

Food for thought after finishing with today’s full slate of games. These don’t include today’s games because at the time of my post PFR hadn’t updated to include today’s stats yet:

Fields (career): 36 games (34 starts): 60.9% comp., 7.0 ypa, 1.37:1 TD/INT ratio, 83.4 QB rating, 11 fumbles lost, 1.06 turnovers/game

Trevor Lawrence (career): 47 games (47 starts): 63.9% comp., 6.7 ypa, 1.54:1 TD/INT ratio, 85.5 QB rating, 18 fumbles lost, 1.13 turnovers/game

*does not include his 2 playoff games last season in which he was significantly worse statistically than his regular season marks

Half our fan base wants to dump Fields to draft Williams and half wants to get Fields more help, but basically everyone on the outside thinks Fields should go. So, if we had Lawrence instead of Fields, we’re having the same conversations about replacing him with Williams or, if he stays, not picking up his 5YO, right? Right??! 

Lawrence will almost certainly have his 5YO picked up if he doesn’t receive a monster extension and basically nobody nationally will bat an eye at it, yet the idea of either with Fields is largely panned as crazy talk, and at best Lawrence has been marginally better on the field with 13 more starts and 11 more appearances worth of “development” and having gotten the full head start of all the QB1 prep from the day he was drafted. I also bring this up since Lawrence was the most recent “generational” QB prospect, a moniker that guarantees nothing other than an extended MSM grace period for on field shortcomings. 

The locals in Duval County seem to be having the same conversations we are though if the replies in this particular post are any indication. Swap in JF for TL in the original post and you’d think it was a thread in this forum.

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by AZBearsFan