MKnight82 Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 13 minutes ago, e16bball said: Just sitting there at 3 and taking the 3rd best QB on the board (having let the Bears take Williams and the Pats or Giants jump us to #2) feels like a distinctly Ron Rivera thing to do. Totally passive, totally indecisive. Let the rest of the teams figure out who gets left for us to choose from. Anyone who’s known me for the last 20 (!) years on this board knows that I totally agree that more picks is better than less. If I was running a team, I always would be looking to move down if I thought I could get comparable value at a lower pick, and land some extra capital in the process — and I’m sure Eugene and whatever forward-thinking GM they install will feel the same way. Except… The one situation in which I don’t think it’s smart to play “value” strategy games in the draft is when it comes to QB. If you love a guy, you have to be aggressive to get him. Because there’s no replacement — missing on a guy you believe in as a future superstar is catastrophic, and it’s not sufficient to just pivot to the next best guy if you don’t feel the same way about him. And the pressing reality is that the chance to take guys like that doesn’t come around often. We were in a position to take a blue chip QB prospect back in 2020, and we passed, and we’ve had to sit through four mostly unsuccessful seasons — with 4 mostly unsuccessful Week One starting QBs — in order to get this chance to be back in that position again. I just don't agree with the all in for QB trade method. I'm also against the 3rd QB in the draft at 3 as well just like you are. If Maye or Williams drops to us at 3 and we want to go that route then fine. But I'm also perfectly fine taking a top end prospect like Marvin Harrison Jr. or trading down for a ransom. I don't think we have have to empty our piggy bank for a QB. Just let it occur naturally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappy Mc Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 1 hour ago, e16bball said: Just sitting there at 3 and taking the 3rd best QB on the board (having let the Bears take Williams and the Pats or Giants jump us to #2) feels like a distinctly Ron Rivera thing to do. Totally passive, totally indecisive. Let the rest of the teams figure out who gets left for us to choose from. Anyone who’s known me for the last 20 (!) years on this board knows that I totally agree that more picks is better than less. If I was running a team, I always would be looking to move down if I thought I could get comparable value at a lower pick, and land some extra capital in the process — and I’m sure Eugene and whatever forward-thinking GM they install will feel the same way. Except… The one situation in which I don’t think it’s smart to play “value” strategy games in the draft is when it comes to QB. If you love a guy, you have to be aggressive to get him. Because there’s no replacement — missing on a guy you believe in as a future superstar is catastrophic, and it’s not sufficient to just pivot to the next best guy if you don’t feel the same way about him. And the pressing reality is that the chance to take guys like that doesn’t come around often. We were in a position to take a blue chip QB prospect back in 2020, and we passed, and we’ve had to sit through four mostly unsuccessful seasons — with 4 mostly unsuccessful Week One starting QBs — in order to get this chance to be back in that position again. Again, if you (or the franchise) is sold on the QB being the guy, go get your guy. I don't have that much faith in any of these QBs. I would go O-Line early and often. I'm not the coach, but this team won't be successful with the line as assembled. We need more talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 39 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said: Again, if you (or the franchise) is sold on the QB being the guy, go get your guy. I don't have that much faith in any of these QBs. I would go O-Line early and often. I'm not the coach, but this team won't be successful with the line as assembled. We need more talent. And that, to me, is the point. As long as it’s about the evaluation of the specific QB(s), I have no problem with saying we don’t want to move up in this draft. If you don’t love the QB, then obviously don’t make the big trade for him. To me, the problem arises if you get to the point where you’re saying “oh, we absolutely love this guy, we see him as one of the best QB prospects in the last 20 years — but we’re not going to move up to get him because we just don’t believe in trading up.” I think that would be concerning. More picks are helpful, but nothing matters more than having your Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lamar, etc. in place for a decade plus. But if you don’t see any of these players as good bets to reach that level, then obviously you don’t make a power move to secure them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted December 29, 2023 Share Posted December 29, 2023 I'm just of the opinion if you can get Williams you do it. He's just an unbelievable talent. I'm not as high on Maye as others but Williams is so good. I hate giving up picks and I really don't want too but for Williams you might have to take the plunge. Like I said before, he's one of those rarified air talents. He could absolutely be a bust but if he hits he's going to be incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 2 hours ago, lavar703 said: I'm just of the opinion if you can get Williams you do it. He's just an unbelievable talent. I'm not as high on Maye as others but Williams is so good. I hate giving up picks and I really don't want too but for Williams you might have to take the plunge. Like I said before, he's one of those rarified air talents. He could absolutely be a bust but if he hits he's going to be incredible. I agree especially only having to move 2-3 spots. We hope we’re not this bad again so we might not be this close maybe for a while. Draft isn’t an exact science but based on the chart it would cost a 2nd and a third. We have 2-2nds and 2-3rds. I would definitely do that but it depends if they think C. Williams is worth the move. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 9 hours ago, turtle28 said: I think they would trade the pick before passing on him & taking someone else at #1. They could trade the pick to us or the Pats whoever gives them the better trade package and draft Maye, MHJ, Alt, or Fashanu with that pick. Tricky situation. They need a qb. You can't keep rolling with Justin Fields when you have the #1 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 17 hours ago, e16bball said: Just sitting there at 3 and taking the 3rd best QB on the board (having let the Bears take Williams and the Pats or Giants jump us to #2) feels like a distinctly Ron Rivera thing to do. Totally passive, totally indecisive. Let the rest of the teams figure out who gets left for us to choose from. Anyone who’s known me for the last 20 (!) years on this board knows that I totally agree that more picks is better than less. If I was running a team, I always would be looking to move down if I thought I could get comparable value at a lower pick, and land some extra capital in the process — and I’m sure Eugene and whatever forward-thinking GM they install will feel the same way. Except… The one situation in which I don’t think it’s smart to play “value” strategy games in the draft is when it comes to QB. If you love a guy, you have to be aggressive to get him. Because there’s no replacement — missing on a guy you believe in as a future superstar is catastrophic, and it’s not sufficient to just pivot to the next best guy if you don’t feel the same way about him. And the pressing reality is that the chance to take guys like that doesn’t come around often. We were in a position to take a blue chip QB prospect back in 2020, and we passed, and we’ve had to sit through four mostly unsuccessful seasons — with 4 mostly unsuccessful Week One starting QBs — in order to get this chance to be back in that position again. But if your QB isn’t there then take Harrison or Bowers or Fashanu/Alt or trade back a few spots and still get on of the premier 4. We still have no clue what we have in Howell. With the fact that every player we have going other places and preforming with competent coaching says we can’t judge a single player under the current regime. Would I let that stop me from drafting a QB? No. Would I just take the 3rd QB to take him if he’s not my guy? No. I doubt this new FO sits idle if they fall in love with one of these QB’s. If they do moving up from 3 is a lot better than moving up from wherever we pick if we improve next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 7 hours ago, offbyone said: Tricky situation. They need a qb. You can't keep rolling with Justin Fields when you have the #1 pick. Two years in a row essentially getting the top pick it is a tricky situation. Though this year isn’t their natural pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripsean21 Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 15 hours ago, e16bball said: And that, to me, is the point. As long as it’s about the evaluation of the specific QB(s), I have no problem with saying we don’t want to move up in this draft. If you don’t love the QB, then obviously don’t make the big trade for him. To me, the problem arises if you get to the point where you’re saying “oh, we absolutely love this guy, we see him as one of the best QB prospects in the last 20 years — but we’re not going to move up to get him because we just don’t believe in trading up.” I think that would be concerning. More picks are helpful, but nothing matters more than having your Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lamar, etc. in place for a decade plus. But if you don’t see any of these players as good bets to reach that level, then obviously you don’t make a power move to secure them. This!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted December 30, 2023 Share Posted December 30, 2023 Not that we wouldn’t have already been, but we’re big Lions fans tonight. Another loss for the Cowboys would go a long way toward giving us an edge in the SOS department as compared to the Pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 45 minutes ago, e16bball said: Not that we wouldn’t have already been, but we’re big Lions fans tonight. Another loss for the Cowboys would go a long way toward giving us an edge in the SOS department as compared to the Pats. ABD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offbyone Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 2 hours ago, e16bball said: Not that we wouldn’t have already been, but we’re big Lions fans tonight. Another loss for the Cowboys would go a long way toward giving us an edge in the SOS department as compared to the Pats. But I think if they lose then they have nothing to play for next week and sit their starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e16bball Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 8 hours ago, e16bball said: Not that we wouldn’t have already been, but we’re big Lions fans tonight. Another loss for the Cowboys would go a long way toward giving us an edge in the SOS department as compared to the Pats. And just like that, we’re back to pick 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar703 Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 5 hours ago, e16bball said: And just like that, we’re back to pick 4. It’s pretty remarkable the effects of one bad call by an officiating crew. Might have removed us from a chance at Maye or Williams and could completely change this franchises future. Unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARTMONK HOF Posted December 31, 2023 Share Posted December 31, 2023 The only way we get the 3rd pick, we need the Pats to win one of their 2 remaining games. Pats opponents Buffalo 9-6 and Jets 6-10 WC opponents SF 11-4 Dallas 11-5 Our opponents will only heighten our SOS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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