Week 4: Detroit Lions (2-1) at Green Bay Packers (2-1)

[HighCalebR]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

MLF seems to believe that strategy wins games. Campbell and some others say, meh, We don't care so much about strategy. We're just going to beat the living s*** out of you. If you win, good for you, but we don't think you will.

Two different philosophies. So far, from what I've observed, the toughness approach seems to prevail most often against the strategy approach. Could MLF change? Doubtful. First off, he really believes in the superior strategy approach. Second he doesn't have the personality for the tougher than you approach. I thought he was holding back tears when he was interviewed coming out for the second half against Detroit. He should have been steaming, red-hot mad. 

Lol. The Lions are very strategically sound. Wut. Their OC is getting HC opportunities.  You don't get those just for gnawing kneecaps.

theyve had a number of very high picks theyve invested into their lines. If we had those same very high picks I think I know where we invest too.

We have no money. We have a young group. The vets we do have are injured. 

There's a good amount of panicking happening here. That isn't based in reality.. again.

Edited October 1, 2023 by HighCalebR

[Mr. Fussnputz]

2 hours ago, HighCalebR said:

Lol. The Lions are very strategically sound. Wut. Their OC is getting HC opportunities.  You don't get those just for gnawing kneecaps.

theyve had a number of very high picks theyve invested into their lines. If we had those same very high picks I think I know where we invest too.

We have no money. We have a young group. The vets we do have are injured. 

There's a good amount of panicking happening here. That isn't based in reality.. again.

You don't think we need to be mentally tougher?

[beekay414]

3 hours ago, packfanfb said:

The Lions sadly have developed a very tough, rugged team mindset, similar to the Niners' style of play. That will always and continue to be an Achilles heel for LaFleur and his style of play. Physical teams just beat that hell out of us, especially on the LOS. 

We were soft long before LaFleur got here. We've been a soft team for a long, long time.

[HighCalebR]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

You don't think we need to be mentally tougher?

I think we need to come out ready to go. The team doesn't fold, what makes you think they arent mentally tough? Undisciplined, sure, I don't think anyone's throwing in the towel out there. I think there's a couple players that are outmatched, but I don't see a toughness issue.

The young OL are bad at stunts and games. Shocking. False starts are killing us on offense and some missed assignments, again, very shocking with a super inexperienced OL. The edge are hunting pressures instead of holding the edge. And then we get put into bad alignments at unfortunate times.

What I think we need is %50 of our missing cap back into our OL and offensive things start looking much better and that in turn helps the defense.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I feel like we are not so much soft but just very inexperienced on the OL.  With Jenkins out, and Bakhtiari gone, we have a journeyman quality to the line that wasn’t up to stopping a very talented Detroit pass rush.

They will likely get somewhat better as they get more experience working together.

[incognito_man]

1 hour ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I feel like we are not so much soft but just very inexperienced on the OL.  With Jenkins out, and Bakhtiari gone, we have a journeyman quality to the line that wasn’t up to stopping a very talented Detroit pass rush.

They will likely get somewhat better as they get more experience working together.

Agreed. The "soft" talk only pops up after a lose. Somehow we're tougher when we win.

There is not a softness problem with the team at all. It's really just that our OL backups are struggling and that our DC plays small defensive fronts too often trying to stop the pass (which ends up too often being irrelevant because we're THAT bad against the run).

[Mr. Fussnputz]

Well, there's physical toughness, and mental toughness which includes a good deal of mental discipline. I don't doubt the physical toughness of NFL players with a few exceptions and they don't hang around long. Undisciplined is is the same as lack of mental toughness. All the penalties are IMO a matter of mental toughness/discipline, and that's on coaching. It has to be preached and practiced until it's second nature. Lombardi was a stickler for it, so was Holmgren. Not so sure about MLF. 

[OneTwoSixFive]

22 hours ago, incognito_man said:

Agreed. The "soft" talk only pops up after a lose. Somehow we're tougher when we win.

There is not a softness problem with the team at all. It's really just that our OL backups are struggling and that our DC plays small defensive fronts too often trying to stop the pass (which ends up too often being irrelevant because we're THAT bad against the run).

Agree with that and beware the other side of the coin, 'tough' teams are often undisciplined and penalty ridden.

If you can be assignment sure AND forceful, that is the gold standard. It isn't easy to achieve. It  may also need a draft strategy with a somewhat different emphasis to what the Packers employ. That might include (for example) just a little less emphasis on pass blocking O linemen and a little (just a little) more emphasis on run blocking.

A blocking TE from the 2024 draft would help too, like Stover (Ohio St.), Castles (Tenn), Conyers (Arizona St.), Yurosek (Stanford), or Spann-Ford (Minn) who at 265 lbs certainly has the size.  This doesn't have to be a high pick as we already have some pass catching TEs on the roster and they are the ones who generate the high picks. Remember Iowa TE Kittle ? He was seen as a blocking TE (because of how he was used in college) and went for a 5th round pick.

I have said before that I think the Packers need one good run-stopping D lineman for some of the first and second downs. I'm good with the current OLBs and with Walker (though we could do with another high quality ILB). 

This team should also look better with a little more experience.

Edited October 2, 2023 by OneTwoSixFive

[HighCalebR]

19 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Well, there's physical toughness, and mental toughness which includes a good deal of mental discipline. I don't doubt the physical toughness of NFL players with a few exceptions and they don't hang around long. Undisciplined is is the same as lack of mental toughness. All the penalties are IMO a matter of mental toughness/discipline, and that's on coaching. It has to be preached and practiced until it's second nature. Lombardi was a stickler for it, so was Holmgren. Not so sure about MLF. 

They aren't personal fouls. It's an over thinking penalty. Idk how that can possibly be classified as a toughness issue

[Mr. Fussnputz]

3 hours ago, HighCalebR said:

They aren't personal fouls. It's an over thinking penalty. Idk how that can possibly be classified as a toughness issue

Mental discipline is a sort of toughness. We may differ on our definition of toughness. That's OK.

[HighCalebR]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Mental discipline is a sort of toughness. We may differ on our definition of toughness. That's OK.

It's acuity. It's not a sort of toughness.. It's not ok because what you said isn't what the word means.

You can't say you're wrong, and that's ok.

Edited October 1, 2023 by HighCalebR

[Laces Out]

Tough and soft are so broad and inflammatory in nature, and water down the meaning of the crux of the argument.

I don't think anyone looks at a game against the GB Packers and cringes at going through that experience and the rehab afterwards, like you would at the 2000s Ravens, Steelers, Seahawks, and 49ers. 

They've built a finesse team for over a decade that is located in an open air stadium in northern Wisconsin dubiously enough on both sides of the ball. Furthermore, despite the astronomical investment of 1st round picks the defense is perpetually bend, don't break, but now lacks the turnovers and coyness of the prime Dom Capers led units. 

The biggest thumper on the team unfortunately stubs his toe on a lady bug and goes down before reaching the line 9f scrimmage so often I wonder if he actually bruises opposing LBs with any regularity.

 

Is that 'soft'? I don't think so necessarily, but I don't find them hard to play against by opposing NFL talent/athletes if scheme is removed in a vacuum.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Laces Out

[Mr. Fussnputz]

1 hour ago, HighCalebR said:

It's acuity. It's not a sort of toughness.. It's not ok because what you said isn't what the word means.

You can't say you're wrong, and that's ok.

Oh, I'm very good at saying I'm wrong. I'm married!

We just disagree on a definition. My concept of toughness is more elaborate than yours. I don't care to fight about it. You're a good poster and I respect your opinion. Let's leave it at that.

[R T]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Oh, I'm very good at saying I'm wrong. I'm married!

We just disagree on a definition. My concept of toughness is more elaborate than yours. I don't care to fight about it. You're a good poster and I respect your opinion. Let's leave it at that.

No.

Show some mental toughness and fight. 

Now.  

[Mr Bad Example]

5 hours ago, OneTwoSixFive said:

Agree with that and beware the other side of the coin, 'tough' teams are often undisciplined and penalty ridden.

I remember early on McCarthy's teams were trying to be "tough" and would take lots of stupid penalties

At some point - maybe two or three years in? - he realized that all this attitude did was give the opposing teams, free opportunities and yards and his teams for the most part after that were pretty disciplined and avoided dumb penalties.