Week 5 GDT: [MNF] McRaiders v Packers - The one where we need to smarten up

[Devilshark69]

26 minutes ago, NickButera said:

Who says I want Caleb or Maye? I never said that. I don't care who we take at QB next year as long as we take a guy in the first round.  Statistically speaking, the last 40 years, only 5 QB's have won a superbowl outside first round picks. 

You keep avoiding my questions. Matter of fact you responded to someone else who stated my exact points with "you respect that". But for me, it's take a break? The fact is, it's hard to get excited or feel anything but "meh" about our win right now because our QB and coach look incompetent ad are holding us back from succeeding. We won't go anywhere with them at the helm. And it sucks feeling this way in week 5, but the fact is this is our team. We're failing. Should I be super excited because we're going to be a 6 win team instead of a 4 win team? Because I'm not. And I don't think that's anything to be happy over.  So I'm not overjoyed that we go the win yesterday. That doesn't mean I need to take a break. It means I'm being factual with our situation. 

Good post

[BackinBlack]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

I agree, but if you're trying to keep your job, you don't explain to the owner how you tossed 33.75 million on black and it came up craps. 

Second, you're turning to a rookie who showed he's not ready to save it which is career suicide.

I could be wrong, but Jimmy G imo gives them the best chance to win. No, I don't see Jimmy G taking bad sacks and fumbling the ball. He is throwing picks and his arm is obviously shot. 

I'd have no problem with AO4 starting and I'm sure we will when they are eliminated. I just don't think it moves the needle offensively. He's a rookie and needs a lot of work. 

ugh, maybe i am just biased.... i am beyond frustrated watching this guy play qb. WRs are open, but by the time ball gets there, theres 3 cbs.  
AOC there is some upside, but yes far from a given. 
As the sacks slowed down in the charger game, id imagine AOC would get better in that department but who knows. 

to me sticking with jimmy is career suicide at this point for JMD, at least AOC could come in and surprise people. you knw what you got with jimmy. 
We are incredibly lucky to be 2-3, competent QB play we are 4-1. 

[big_palooka]

8 minutes ago, BackinBlack said:

ugh, maybe i am just biased.... i am beyond frustrated watching this guy play qb. WRs are open, but by the time ball gets there, theres 3 cbs.  
AOC there is some upside, but yes far from a given. 
As the sacks slowed down in the charger game, id imagine AOC would get better in that department but who knows. 

to me sticking with jimmy is career suicide at this point for JMD, at least AOC could come in and surprise people. you knw what you got with jimmy. 
We are incredibly lucky to be 2-3, competent QB play we are 4-1. 

There is not a competent QB on the roster is the issue I see. This is a lose/lose situation. 

I agree, watching Jimmy G and this offense is frustrating. AOC taking sacks as a deer in the headlights was also frustrating. 

There is no in season solution. So likely going to see them ride Jimmy G until they are mathematically out of it, then get AOC some run.

[Jeremy408]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Why you pumping Maye now? Earlier this week you said Sanders was #2 behind Williams.

I dont think we're gonna get any of them. But yea I still like Sanders over Maye. But I like both option. Outside of those 3 I dont like any of the other prospects at QB

[NCOUGHMAN]

3 hours ago, big_palooka said:

AOC is not going to start until they are mathematically out of it or Jimmy G is hurt. 

Can you imagine JMD/DZ going to Davis week 6 and saying hey, I know we gave this 33.75 mil gtd, but we're going to go with the rookie. 

Not to mention, while AOC is a fun underdog story, he wasn't particularly sharp. He held onto the ball, taking sacks and turning it over. I'd argue the Raiders beat the Chargers with Jimmy G simply on him being a vet and not taking those sacks and fumbles. 

Jmdz gotta go to Davis 

for carr, waller, chandler so what’s 1 more f up lol

[justwinbaby81]

3 hours ago, NickButera said:

Who says I want Caleb or Maye? I never said that. I don't care who we take at QB next year as long as we take a guy in the first round.  Statistically speaking, the last 40 years, only 5 QB's have won a superbowl outside first round picks. 

You keep avoiding my questions. Matter of fact you responded to someone else who stated my exact points with "you respect that". But for me, it's take a break? The fact is, it's hard to get excited or feel anything but "meh" about our win right now because our QB and coach look incompetent ad are holding us back from succeeding. We won't go anywhere with them at the helm. And it sucks feeling this way in week 5, but the fact is this is our team. We're failing. Should I be super excited because we're going to be a 6 win team instead of a 4 win team? Because I'm not. And I don't think that's anything to be happy over.  So I'm not overjoyed that we go the win yesterday. That doesn't mean I need to take a break. It means I'm being factual with our situation. 

I respected the poster in his sentiments to wanting to see the offense perform better, even in a win. We all want to see more. We are not where we need to be, but one side is taking strides and the other side I think can make strides. I think most of us expected the offense to be the better unit, and I think they're still time and certainly talent to make it happen. Jacobs is hitting his stride after missing off season so I think he gets better and better. Mayer is starting to look the part. Turner can make a big play or two a game given the chance. Renfrow is getting more than 0 targets. Meyers looks like a Pro Bowler back from the concussion. 

We still get a first round pick be it 5th, 15th, 25th...so if all you want is a QB in the first round why do you care which spot it is? If you truly didn't want CW or DM then a win shouldn't bother you in any sense. We can check that box in April, and unless AOC comes in and lights it up we probably will do that.

[NickButera]

23 minutes ago, justwinbaby81 said:

I respected the poster in his sentiments to wanting to see the offense perform better, even in a win. We all want to see more. We are not where we need to be, but one side is taking strides and the other side I think can make strides. I think most of us expected the offense to be the better unit, and I think they're still time and certainly talent to make it happen. Jacobs is hitting his stride after missing off season so I think he gets better and better. Mayer is starting to look the part. Turner can make a big play or two a game given the chance. Renfrow is getting more than 0 targets. Meyers looks like a Pro Bowler back from the concussion. 

We still get a first round pick be it 5th, 15th, 25th...so if all you want is a QB in the first round why do you care which spot it is? If you truly didn't want CW or DM then a win shouldn't bother you in any sense. We can check that box in April, and unless AOC comes in and lights it up we probably will do that.

You're inserting an argument on my behalf that I didn't make. I'm not preferential in draft position. Why do you keep bringing that up? Do you have me mistaken for another poster maybe? You've never addressed my point or question and keep inserting a straw man argument about draft position that I didn't make. 

My point is, it's hard to get excited about a win when watching this team, it looks like we have a LONG way to go to become a winning playoff team. If we're not a playoff team, getting that 5th win, or 6th win, or 7th win, by itself isn't exciting. It would be, if we had an exciting future. But we're a losing team with a coaching staff and QB that aren't going to make us a winning team. Therefor, my question and point was: Is it that much better to be super excited about being 6-11 over 4-13? I don't think it is, which is why this win feel "meh" to me. 

This win doesn't bother me, but rather I feel numb to it until this team shows me we're going somewhere with wins. Which is why player development, new coaching staff, new QB, that's what I care about more than a meaningless win for this team that is not going to make the playoffs.  

[justwinbaby81]

4 minutes ago, NickButera said:

You're inserting an argument on my behalf that I didn't make. I'm not preferential in draft position. Why do you keep bringing that up? Do you have me mistaken for another poster maybe? You've never addressed my point or question and keep inserting a straw man argument about draft position that I didn't make. 

My point is, it's hard to get excited about a win when watching this team, it looks like we have a LONG way to go to become a winning playoff team. If we're not a playoff team, getting that 5th win, or 6th win, or 7th win, by itself isn't exciting. It would be, if we had an exciting future. But we're a losing team with a coaching staff and QB that aren't going to make us a winning team. Therefor, my question and point was: Is it that much better to be super excited about being 6-11 over 4-13? I don't think it is, which is why this win feel "meh" to me. 

This win doesn't bother me, but rather I feel numb to it until this team shows me we're going somewhere with wins. Which is why player development, new coaching staff, new QB, that's what I care about more than a meaningless win for this team that is not going to make the playoffs.  

What question are you insisting I am avoiding? Instead of long diatribes ask your question and I will try and answer it.

[NickButera]

3 minutes ago, justwinbaby81 said:

What question are you insisting I am avoiding? Instead of long diatribes ask your question and I will try and answer it.

Should I be super excited that we're going to be a 6 win team instead of a 4 win team this year?

Am I allowed to feel like our team despite winning this week, looks like a team in need of major leadership changes and that 6 or 4 wins won't matter in the long run of this team? 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

I dont think we're gonna get any of them. But yea I still like Sanders over Maye. But I like both option. Outside of those 3 I dont like any of the other prospects at QB

Man... you really falling for all the media ballyhoo over CU and Sanders. Just because something is LOUD, doesn't make it good. 

Maye is the consensus 1b to Williams. Sanders is a 2nd round pick. What does he have that is better than Maye? What separates Sanders from guys like McCarthy, Penix, Ewers, Daniels, Travis, Nix, etc?

I think you're vastly overrating him. If his last name wasn't Sanders and that program not in the spotlight weekly, he'd be just another QB. 

[justwinbaby81]

28 minutes ago, NickButera said:

Should I be super excited that we're going to be a 6 win team instead of a 4 win team this year?

Am I allowed to feel like our team despite winning this week, looks like a team in need of major leadership changes and that 6 or 4 wins won't matter in the long run of this team? 

You're allowed to feel however you want to feel, that's up to you. We do need changes to become a legitimate contender, but changes can happen independently of these wins. I said to you in the first response that one win does not change our QB or HC strategy next year. Both can happen at anywhere between 2-8 wins. We have fired coaches at 8 wins before.

I saw strides on defense that could be sustainable long-term, that to me is very important. I think there should be more optimism today than there was yesterday based on the play on the field, let alone the win. The defense and Patrick Graham specifically. Building off of the Chargers performance on defense and then coming out and showing another good game on that side. Packers were scoring 25/game, we cut it in half despite some short fields. It resulted in a win. Based on all of that, yes I think you should be more excited with what we saw collectively the first 4 games, but you do you. I think we can win more than 6 games, but if you think there is something hindering major changes at 6 wins vs 4 wins what exactly is that? QB and HC aren't the only parts of the team, we need to see growth in a lot of areas and we saw growth in several.

This all started with you when I was calling out people hoping the Raiders lose, which I do think is BS. I never quoted you, and you responded. Hoping we lose and expecting we lose are two very different things. If you are not hoping we lose and just are expecting that we lose, don't take it personally because it wasn't directed at you. If you are hoping we lose, then do take it personally. 

You can want change and not actively hope for failure to get there.

Edited October 10, 2023 by justwinbaby81

[jpaulthe1st]

Draft position matters. Period

I remember the same arguments about needing to win meaningless games in 2018 which led to us missing out on Nick Bosa and Quinnen Williams and ending up with Clelin Ferrell instead. Can you imagine Bosa and Crosby as bookend DE’s? Or Williams and Crosby as a tandem on the DL? 

In a year where 2 generational QB’s are available I would much prefer to endure a rough season in exchange for drafting a franchise changing talent at the most important position.

It’s called long term thinking and I’m not going to have my 30+ years of fandom called into question because I am ok with delayed gratification. 

[FloydFan]

Anyone saying draft position doesn’t matter and that we need to win meaningless games when this team is obviously a dumpster fire is the reason we have watched the Raiders we have over the last two decades. 

[big_palooka]

2 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Draft position matters. Period

I remember the same arguments about needing to win meaningless games in 2018 which led to us missing out on Nick Bosa and Quinnen Williams and ending up with Clelin Ferrell instead. Can you imagine Bosa and Crosby as bookend DE’s? Or Williams and Crosby as a tandem on the DL? 

In a year where 2 generational QB’s are available I would much prefer to endure a rough season in exchange for drafting a franchise changing talent at the most important position.

It’s called long term thinking and I’m not going to have my 30+ years of fandom called into question because I am ok with delayed gratification. 

It certainly matters. But not in October. There is way to much football to be played. 

Late in the season, already out of the playoffs ala 2018, those wins suck. 

A rough season for the Raiders would mean trading Adams, Jacobs and probably Crosby. 

[big_palooka]

36 minutes ago, FloydFan said:

Anyone saying draft position doesn’t matter and that we need to win meaningless games when this team is obviously a dumpster fire is the reason we have watched the Raiders we have over the last two decades. 

When does it matter though? You're basically saying you want the team to lose out starting at week 5 to compete for the first pick. Hows that effect your team and star players and the team psyche. It's just not realistic imo. 

Week 12, sure... start making arrangements, but it's hard to chase that this early.

And again... I think we're all a little drunk on Williams hype here. There are several guys in this class that check the boxes for franchise QBs.