Let's talk Bryce Young

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 hour ago, naptownskinsfan said:

That could be another interpretation, absolutely.  But I am worried that Young would say something like he did to the media in a public statement.  That’s……not a good optic.  

I’d also argue it might not even be on many people in the Panthers organization if Tepper was dead-set on it.  Having experienced an owner like that, the staff is basically having their hands tied and then having to work through the rest of the draft trying to make up for that choice.  

At least with Jerry Jones, he’s acting as the GM and owns the entire process.  Guys like Snyder and Tepper don’t do that, they just meddle.  

 

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

I think that everyone cares on game day, but does he care in the off-season and during practice? I’m not in the building so I’m not going to speculate there.

Everyone handles failure differently; some need to mentally and physically get away, others need to go all in head on, like Cal Ripken when he was in a slump and was taking on field BP with a tee alone on the field in September when the orioles were already eliminated.

The optics for someone who was this bad as a rookie aren’t good for him to be that flippant about his offseason, because the NFL is an unforgiving place, but he put some of this on himself with some pretty out of touch comments he made at Alabama with one of the most cringeworthy and inaccurate Heisman speeches I’ve seen. 

Absolutely agree, the kid made a statement that was somehow both too honest in that he's tacitly admitting he needed to get away from the mental side, but not honest enough by dancing around that he struggled. It'd be easy for someone to read that as him coming off one of the worst rookie seasons in history and being easy breezy about it.

If he had said, "Last year I had high expectations in myself and missed, so after discussing with my family and the organization, we decided it would be best for me to do a full reset and take a break from the X's and O's", there'd be no issue.

At some point the kid does need to have the PR awareness that most Panther fans stopped listening after "Literally. Nothing." but that's tough when you're a 22 year old.

Edited 8 hours ago by ramssuperbowl99

[MWil23]

36 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

 

Absolutely agree, the kid made a statement that was somehow both too honest in that he's tacitly admitting he needed to get away from the mental side, but not honest enough by dancing around that he struggled. It'd be easy for someone to read that as him coming off one of the worst rookie seasons in history and being easy breezy about it.

If he had said, "Last year I had high expectations in myself and missed, so after discussing with my family and the organization, we decided it would be best for me to do a full reset and take a break from the X's and O's", there'd be no issue.

At some point the kid does need to have the PR awareness that most Panther fans stopped listening after "Literally. Nothing." but that's tough when you're a 22 year old.

22, #1 overall recruit, Heisman winner, millionaire before your first snap in college, multimillionaire before your professional training camp, zero struggles ever in your life.

Physical concerns aside, I personally had a hard time getting past his “I paved the way” speech and being a “me guy” publicly and how that would translate. (Same concerns I had for Baker, JFF, plenty of others)

It’s a lack of overall ownership of owning your craft that raised an eyebrow. When you succeed it’s because of yourself but when you fail there’s no ownership…? 

[ronjon1990]

3 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I think the more forgiving interpretation is he was overwhelmed and terrible at his job for the first time in his life.

Look at his reaction when he throws this pick, he's devastated to the point he's almost crying:

The guy clearly cares and is trying his best. I don't think this is work ethic thing.

Totally agreed though, zero elite traits and a complete mystery as to how the draft process didn't suss this out. But that's not on Young, that's on the Panthers and QB evaluation as a whole.

This. 

Look, I don't wanna bash anyone because by all accounts, he's a good dude with a solid home life. 

But he's a very small man in a big man's sport playing a position where a lack of size can break you. 

Someone told him he could be a great NFL QB but didn't prep him for potential failure. I saw he was throwing with college guys in like 6th grade or something like that? OK, that's cool and all, but what expectations does that set for him internally and externally? 

6th grader tossing balls to college players = 6th grade wunderkind, but there's rarely a discussion about college players making him look significantly better than he really was at the time. 

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but there was a massive disconnect, imo, as to how the competition scales up in actual games. Dominant high school program led to dominant college programs. The next leap though, the talent jumps exponentially. 

Young was a wunderkind who was purposefully prepped to be a QB and was pushed towards places (private high schools, top level college programs) where his accolades would be built. For the first time, he's not in that kind of controlled environment and it's also the stiffness level of competition he's faced. Being a 6th grade prodigy makes for a great 30-For-30 opening bit, but it means absolutely nothing in the long run. This is probably his first time experiencing his prodigal status not being relevant. 

It's not on Young individually. His effort is there. He no doubt cares. But sports writers and coaches and mentors and agents? They promoted this local prodigy up to USC with all the hype. They promoted him to Alabama with all the hype. They promoted him to the NFL with all the hype. Look at his background, look how great he's been forever, they said.

Like Tevor Lawrence, he was tabbed an early favorite to go #1 overall and slam dunk to go no lower than 2 or 3. Once that stuff starts, objectivity tends to go out the window. Once you have that label, all you have to do is not screw up (hard to do when surrounded by great talent, too) and hope nobody else pops up and pulls some miraculous stuff to jump you. Otherwise, your draft position is generally set. Heck, we just saw it with Caleb Williams too. 2 years ago he was the #1 overall pick in waiting and nobody got close to supplanting him in that regard, even though he didn't exactly meet any of the projections people had for him at USC 2 years ago. There's a lot of fluffing going on, and these kids aren't exactly dealing with adversity very well. 

I feel for the guy. He's practically Kellen Moore gone to a big program. I don't doubt his effort or love for the game. I don't think he's trash as a player. But his body (and physical skill) is not NFL caliber, and he's now outside of a carefully tailored bubble where that stuff now matters and isn't typically overcome. 

I think this is a classic case of a kid having smoke blown up his butt for most of his life, usually a disservice. Unfortunately for Bryce, he's seemingly pretty humble and likeable too. It would be more entertaining if it was some arrogant punk getting some humble pie served up, but for Young it's just a harsh reality check he doesn't deserve. And I don't think he has any clue how to navigate it on the field or behind a mic, while those around him that likely do are the same ones who've spent years blowing smoke. Tough spot. 

Edited 7 hours ago by ronjon1990

[MWil23]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Unfortunately for Bryce, he's seemingly pretty humble and likeable too. It would be more entertaining if it was some arrogant punk getting some humble pie served up,

I agree with basically everything you said until this. He suffers from delusions of grandeur and has an overinflated view of himself and has been enabled his entire life to be told he’s awesome and was clearly not prepared physically or mentally for this stage, and he’s shell shocked.

[ronjon1990]

Just now, MWil23 said:

I agree with basically everything you said until this. He suffers from delusions of grandeur and has an overinflated view of himself and has been enabled his entire life to be told he’s awesome and was clearly not prepared physically or mentally for this stage, and he’s shell shocked.

I don't disagree, but I think a lot of that comes part and parcel with the external influences. 

He's not CJ Stroud chill, but he's also not Johnny Manziel arrogant arse.

10 or so years ago, he was special. He was in Jr High hanging around upper college and pro level camps. No doubt that only got worse in high school and then college. I don't think he's naturally an insufferable arse, rather he got put in a bubble of being super special. 

I guess what I'm trying to say here is he's a tragic case, but the blame goes way beyond him alone, and started so young that it's almost hard to hold it against him. I've known a few of those "special" cases, and they're almost all socially inept in some way, shape, or form....and the worst factors behind the "why" of it were parents and coaches. 

He's not pissing away a great opportunity like a Manziel, rather he has no concept of anything but being the bestest boy there ever was. One, I enjoy watching tumble, the other I feel a little bad for because they're not personal f-up type of actions. 

[offbyone]

There is the simple point of view of most 1st round qbs fail and Young started with a short stick.

Sure Stroud is looking far and away like the better choice, but even Young's worst critic would have said that he was a legitimate prospect.  It is what it is. 

Has he failed to put the appropriate work in?  Is he immature or caving under the pressure?  Sounds like a strong maybe.  But, I think the real question is will Carolina dig in or move on.  Time will tell, but if they dig in, I expect coaching changes to come.  

As far as Tepper, yes he sucks, but so do most owners and most owners seem to meddle or at least strongly weigh in on choices like #1 draft picks.  

 

[MWil23]

47 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

I don't disagree, but I think a lot of that comes part and parcel with the external influences. 

He's not CJ Stroud chill, but he's also not Johnny Manziel arrogant arse.

10 or so years ago, he was special. He was in Jr High hanging around upper college and pro level camps. No doubt that only got worse in high school and then college. I don't think he's naturally an insufferable arse, rather he got put in a bubble of being super special. 

I guess what I'm trying to say here is he's a tragic case, but the blame goes way beyond him alone, and started so young that it's almost hard to hold it against him. I've known a few of those "special" cases, and they're almost all socially inept in some way, shape, or form....and the worst factors behind the "why" of it were parents and coaches. 

He's not pissing away a great opportunity like a Manziel, rather he has no concept of anything but being the bestest boy there ever was. One, I enjoy watching tumble, the other I feel a little bad for because they're not personal f-up type of actions. 

I think there’s a difference between being arrogant and being a complete jackass. JFF pissed his career away due to substance abuse, being a frat boy, no accountability, etc.

Young not only doesn’t have the physical attributes, but he’s also completely indifferent towards the big opportunity and stage where he is and just how little chances you get in the NFL.

[Chiefer]

All this Just makes me remember that Brady interview where he went off about how colleges aren’t preparing QBs properly anymore, and then teams are drafting them and forcing them to start their first year when they clearly aren’t ready. As a consequence Teams are dumbing down offenses to get these guys into the NFl, bringing the overall product down. It’s just a disaster

Even the old school guys that got the “proper coaching” like Brady still needed to sit a year to really learn how to play in the nfl. It’s why I’ll never disparage a team for doing what the Falcons did this year.

Edited 2 hours ago by Chiefer

[ronjon1990]

19 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

All this Just makes me remember that Brady interview where he went off about how colleges aren’t preparing QBs properly anymore, and then teams are drafting them and forcing them to start their first year when they clearly aren’t ready. As a consequence Teams are dumbing down offenses to get these guys into the NFl, bringing the overall product down. It’s just a disaster

Even the old school guys that got the “proper coaching” like Brady still needed to sit a year to really learn how to play in the nfl. It’s why I’ll never disparage a team for doing what the Falcons did this year.

The franchises that are stable and got a guy- Chiefs and Packers- did it too. 

The Chargers didn't intend to start Herbert, and while the coaching was bad, Herbert benefitted from sitting while he did. 

Sitting a guy for at least a year tends to work out better. If the season goes sideways late, give them the last 2 or 3 games to see, if you want, but starting from day 1 doesn't seem to work well unless you have a dominant team and coaching like the 49ers...and even they're hit and miss. 

[jebrick]

23 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

All this Just makes me remember that Brady interview where he went off about how colleges aren’t preparing QBs properly anymore, and then teams are drafting them and forcing them to start their first year when they clearly aren’t ready. As a consequence Teams are dumbing down offenses to get these guys into the NFl, bringing the overall product down. It’s just a disaster

Even the old school guys that got the “proper coaching” like Brady still needed to sit a year to really learn how to play in the nfl. It’s why I’ll never disparage a team for doing what the Falcons did this year.

I just think he was drafted too high for the physical red flags he had.  Going back to another 5'10 QB,  Russell Wilson.  He had eye popping accuracy coming out of college for a pocket passer and went in the 3rd round. 

Perhaps QB inflation has pushed many of these guys up too far.  Brees and Farve were 2nd round picks ( for different reasons).  If Young were a 2nd or 3rd rounder then there would not be the pressure on him and he could learn.